[PRCo] Re: The Rest of the World -Electric Rails - Britain

[Dwight Long]

John

I would offer up "high speed tram lines" as a starter.

Dwight

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: John Swindler 
  To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org 
  Sent: Tuesday, 08 March, 2011 18:33
  Subject: [PRCo] Re: The Rest of the World -Electric Rails - Britain




  Light rail was a term arrived at late60s/early 70s to come up with a term to describe something like the Stadtbahn being developed in W. Germany, limited tram in the Hague, and a few other cities.  It's been around since the 1890s, but a new term was needed to sell the concept of an improved streetcar service to the public and politicians.  Likewise bus rapid transit is improved bus service, but this also is propaganda to sell concept to public and politicians.  I once heard that the term light rail was decided upon over a few beers in a Philadelphia pub, but that is only hearsay.

  Since the 1890s?  What else would you call the Green line streetcar lines in Boston.  And Shaker.  And 7 City Subway.

  Cheers
  John


  > Subject: [PRCo] Re: The Rest of the World -Electric Rails - Britain
  > From: fwschneider at comcast.net
  > Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 17:52:32 -0500
  > To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
  > 
  > 
  > APTA is official?   Britain has their own definition.   Each politician has his idea?   San Diego calls it a trolley.   Russ Jackson tells me that light rail has to be capable of moving in street traffic.   But if we make a mistake and say commuter rail, then the FRA jumps in and claims jurisdiction instead of the FTA in this country ... that is why the Austin project didn't get off the ground for over a year after the planned opening date.   You see it was light rail running as commuter rail on a national railroad ... but if you call it light rail (like New Jersey Transit's River line), then you keep the Federal Railroad Administration out of the picture and their buff strength requirements are not applicable when you build cars.   You only have to provide temporal separation between trains and light rail cars.   You confused?   Why shouldn't you be?  
  > 
  > 
  > On Mar 8, 2011, at 3:47 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
  > 
  > > FYI, the official definitions for all modes of public transport, at least
  > > in North America, are those definitions set forth by the American Public
  > > Transportation Association (APTA) through the APTA Standards Development
  > > Program.
  > > 
  > > 
  > > 
  > > 
  > > 
  > > On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 12:42, Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>wrote:
  > > 
  > >> One of the guys who got this wanted to engage me in a contest over the
  > >> definition of light rail.   I refused because it is always in the mind of
  > >> the beholder and in this case, the politician.
  > >> 
  > >> Whatever you call it, I'm simply amazed at the passenger counts.   My God,
  > >> Derrick, 215,000 a day in one corner of the city.
  > >> 
  > >> 
  > >> 
  > >> On Mar 7, 2011, at 11:18 PM, Derrick Brashear wrote:
  > >> 
  > >>>> LONDON'S DOCKLAND'S LIGHT RAIL, NOT A PART OF THE UNDERGROUND, WAS
  > >> CREATED TO PROVIDE TRANSPORTATION TO THE EAST INDIA DOCKS IN AN ATTEMPT TO
  > >> HELP REVITALIZE THE AREA AFTER CONTAINERIZATION SPELLED THE END OF THEIR
  > >> ORIGINAL PURPOSE OF THE DOCKS ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE THAMES RIVER.   The
  > >> first two lines from Bank Street and Tower Bridge to Isle of Dogs and from
  > >> Stratford in East London southward to Isle of Dogs opened in 1987 using
  > >> totally automated trains.   An extension eastward to Canningtown opened in
  > >> 1994, one under the Thames to Greenwich and Lewisham saw service in 1996,
  > >> three more extensions have opened by 2009 and another will open next year.
  > >> Docklands is now transporting over 69 million riders a year which they
  > >> modestly say exceeds 100,000 a day ... weekdays probably exceed 215,000.
  > >> You will notice that those short two-section articulated trains of 1987 are
  > >> past tense!    If you go to visit the Tower of London or Tower Bridge ...
  > >> sneak away and look at this!
  > >> .!
  > >>>  !
  > >>> 
  > >>> Not only are they past tense, the equipment was sold when the tunnel
  > >>> to Bank was built, apparently.
  > >>> 
  > >>> I rode it just over a week ago, from Bank to Lewisham. Seems more akin
  > >>> to the airport people movers than to most light rail.
  > >>> 
  > >>> 
  > >>> 
  > >>> 
  > >>> --
  > >>> Derrick
  > >>> 
  > >>> 
  > >> 
  > >> 
  > >> 
  > >> 
  > > 
  > > 
  > > -- 
  > > Herb Brannon
  > > In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
  > > 
  > > 
  > > 
  > 
  > 
  >