[PRCo] Re: The Rest of the World -Electric Rails - Britain
Dwight Long
dwightlong at verizon.net
Wed Mar 9 22:47:30 EST 2011
John
Did he not work for a time at the Port Authority of Allegheny County as well?
Dwight
----- Original Message -----
From: John Swindler
To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
Sent: Wednesday, 09 March, 2011 20:51
Subject: [PRCo] Re: The Rest of the World -Electric Rails - Britain
I'll have to see if the W. Millar bio mentions pitching pennies at PennDOT.
> From: hrbran at cavtel.net
> Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 18:56:51 -0500
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: The Rest of the World -Electric Rails - Britain
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>
> Right out of the new APTA "Fact Book". These newest definitions are
> greatly simplified over the original listings a few years ago and now group
> several modes into more broad categories. Look at the APTA website for
> information on the Standards Program, a *funded* project of APTA. The
> attached pdf may help you to understand what has been happening at APTA
> reference standardization of terms. Also a short bio of Wm Millar who got
> the standardization started:
>
>
>
> Mode of Service Definitions
>
> *Mode *is a system for carrying transit passengers described by specific
> right-of-way, technology, and operational features.
>
> *Aerial Tramway *is electric system of aerial cables with suspended
> powerless passenger vehicles. The vehicles are propelled by separate cables
> attached to the vehicle suspension system and powered by engines or motors
> at a central location not on board the vehicle.
>
> *Automated Guideway Transit *(also called *personal rapid transit*, *group
> rapid transit*, or *people mover*) is an electric railway (single or
> multi-car trains) of guided transit vehicles operating without an onboard
> crew. Service may be on a fixed schedule or in response to a passenger
> activated call button.
>
> *Bus *is a mode of transit service (also called *motor bus*) characterized
> by roadway vehicles powered by diesel, gasoline, battery, or alternative
> fuel engines contained within the vehicle. Vehicles operate on streets and
> roadways in fixed-route or other regular service. Types of bus service
> include local service, where vehicles may stop every block or two along a
> route several miles long. When limited to a small geographic area or to
> short-distance trips, local service is often called *circulator*, *feeder*,
> *neighborhood*, *trolley*, or *shuttle service*. Other types of bus service
> are *express service*, *limited-stop service*, and *bus rapid transit (BRT)*.
>
>
> *Cable Car *is a railway with individually controlled transit vehicles
> attached while moving to a moving cable located below the street surface and
> powered by engines or motors at a central location not on board the vehicle.
>
>
> *Commuter Rail *is a mode of transit service (also called *metropolitan rail
> *, *regional rail*, or *suburban rail*) characterized by an electric or
> diesel propelled railway for urban passenger train service consisting of
> local short distance travel operating between a central city and adjacent
> suburbs. Service must be operated on a regular basis by or under contract
> with a transit operator for the purpose of transporting passengers within
> urbanized areas, or between urbanized areas and outlying areas. Such rail
> service, using either locomotive hauled or self-propelled railroad passenger
> cars, is generally characterized by multi-trip tickets, specific station to
> station fares, railroad employment practices and usually only one or two
> stations in the central business district. Intercity rail service is
> excluded, except for that portion of such service that is operated by or
> under contract with a public transit agency for predominantly commuter
> services. Most service is provided on routes of current or former freight
> railroads.
>
> *Ferry Boat *is a transit mode comprising vessels carrying passengers and in
> some cases vehicles over a body of water, and that are generally steam or
> diesel-powered. When at least one terminal is within an urbanized area, it
> is *urban ferryboat service*. Such service excludes international, rural,
> rural interstate, island, and urban park ferries.
>
> *Heavy Rail *is a mode of transit service (also called *metro*,
> *subway*, *rapid
> transit*, or *rapid rail*) operating on an electric railway with the
> capacity for a heavy volume of traffic. It is characterized by high speed
> and rapid acceleration passenger rail cars operating singly or in multi-car
> trains on fixed rails; separate rights-of-way from which all other vehicular
> and foot traffic are excluded; sophisticated signaling, and high platform
> loading.
>
> *Inclined Plane *is a railway operating over exclusive right-of-way on steep
> grades (slopes) with powerless vehicles propelled by moving cables attached
> to the vehicles and powered by engines or motors at a central location not
> on board the vehicle. The special tramway type of vehicles has passenger
> seats that remain horizontal while the undercarriage (truck) is angled
> parallel to the slope.
>
> *Light Rail *is a mode of transit service (also called *streetcar*, *tramway
> *, or *trolley*) operating passenger rail cars singly (or in short, usually
> two-car or three-car, trains) on fixed rails in right-of-way that is often
> separated from other traffic for part or much of the way. Light rail
> vehicles are typically driven electrically with power being drawn from an
> overhead electric line via a trolley or a pantograph; driven by an operator
> on board the vehicle; and may have either high platform loading or low level
> boarding using steps.
>
> *Monorail *is an electric railway of guided transit vehicles operating
> singly or in multi-car trains. The vehicles are suspended from or straddle a
> guideway formed by a single beam, rail, or tube.
>
> *Paratransit *is a mode of transit service (also called *demand response *or
> *dial-a-ride*) characterized by the use of passenger automobiles, vans or
> small buses operating in response to calls from passengers or their agents
> to the transit operator, who then dispatches a vehicle to pick up the
> passengers and transport them to their destinations. The vehicles do not
> operate over a fixed route or on a fixed schedule. The vehicle may be
> dispatched to pick up several passengers at different pick-up points before
> taking them to their respective destinations and may even be interrupted en
> route to these destinations to pick up other passengers.
>
> *Trolleybus *is a mode of transit service (also called* trolley coach*)
> using vehicles propelled by a motor drawing current from overhead wires via
> connecting poles called a trolley poles from a central power source not on
> board the vehicle.
>
> *Vanpool *is ridesharing by prearrangement using vans or small buses
> providing round trip transportation between the participant's prearranged
> boarding points and a common and regular destination. Data included in this
> report are the sum of vanpool data reported in the National Transit Database
> (NTD) and do not include any data for vanpools not listed in the National
> Transit Database. Vanpool service reported in the NTD must be operated by a
> public entity, or a public entity must own, purchase, or lease the
> vehicle(s). Vanpool included in the NTD must also be in compliance with mass
> transit rules including Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) provisions, be
> open to the public and that availability must be made known, and use
> vehicles with a minimum capacity of 7 persons.
> ------------------------------
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 13:11, John Swindler <j_swindler at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Perhaps because term 'trolley bus' has been taken over by diesel bus
> > manufacturers.
> >
> > And I agree - it's still 'Modern Tramway", just like it is still the
> > Overbrook line and Beechview line.
> >
> > As for ASVs, probably hybrid - and I've had occasion to point out to others
> > (at Frankford for instance) that this technology is not something new - but
> > was tried 75 years ago.
> >
> > Ah, yes, Bill Millar. He worked at PennDOT mid-1970s.
> >
> > Cheers
> > John
> >
> >
> > > From: dwightlong at verizon.net
> > > To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> > > Subject: [PRCo] Re: The Rest of the World -Electric Rails - Britain
> > > Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 10:19:46 -0500
> > >
> > > Herb
> > >
> > > The ridiculous term "electric trolley bus" is a particularly egregious
> > item of "newspeak" and is redundant and stupid. And pray tell, what earthly
> > difference is there between a "trolley bus" and an "electric trolley bus?"
> > And where in this supposedly "standard" (NOT) glossary do ASVs fall?
> > >
> > > I recognize the reasons behind Newspeak, but that does not mean I do not
> > deplore it and certainly does not mean that I'm going to use it. "Modern
> > Tramway" is still "Modern Tramway" to me, not Light Rail Transit Journal or
> > whatever the name de jour may be.
> > >
> > > OK, call me a curmudgeon. Or do you have a newspeak word for
> > "curmudgeon." (Sanctioned by Bill Millar of course).
> > >
> > > Dwight
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Herb Brannon
> > > To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 08 March, 2011 21:44
> > > Subject: [PRCo] Re: The Rest of the World -Electric Rails - Britain
> > >
> > >
> > > APTA is the "trade organization" of public transportation in the US,
> > Canada,
> > > and Mexico. Nothing more, nothing less.
> > > Also, if you read what I wrote you would have read, "....politicians are
> > > EXEMPT FROM THE TRUTH, " It was a polite way of saying they are not
> > honest.
> > >
> > >
> > > The original reply was to inform you that DEFINITIONS of such items as
> > Light
> > > Rail, Heavy Rail, Commuter Rail, Surface Bus, Bus Rapid Transit, Electric
> > > Trolley Bus, Trolley Bus, etc have been worked out by APTA and are
> > generally
> > > used throughout the transit industry. It was not meant to put you on the
> > > defensive.
> > >
> > > .
> > >
> > > On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 20:30, Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net
> > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > Then how come the FTA and FRA aren't listening? How can APTA be the
> > > > official voice for something run by politicians, whom you just said are
> > > > exempt? The entire industry is political. Nothing today is apolitical.
> > > > There are no private light rail lines.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mar 8, 2011, at 6:55 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > The UK is not in North America, politicians are exempt from the
> > truth,
> > > > San
> > > > > Diego calls their light rail a trolley because its a local marketing
> > logo
> > > > > just as "T" is a Pittsburgh local marketing logo , and yes, light
> > rail,
> > > > > while it has the capability of moving in "heavy mixed traffic", does
> > not
> > > > > have to. APTA is the official voice of mass transit in North America
> > and
> > > > > does not divide itself by different modes controlled by different US
> > > > > Government agencies. No, I am not confused, APTA has made it crystal
> > > > > clear.
> > > > > On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 17:52, Fred Schneider <
> > fwschneider at comcast.net
> > > > >wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >>
> > > > >> APTA is official? Britain has their own definition. Each politician
> > > > has
> > > > >> his idea? San Diego calls it a trolley. Russ Jackson tells me that
> > > > light
> > > > >> rail has to be capable of moving in street traffic. But if we make a
> > > > >> mistake and say commuter rail, then the FRA jumps in and claims
> > > > jurisdiction
> > > > >> instead of the FTA in this country ... that is why the Austin
> > project
> > > > didn't
> > > > >> get off the ground for over a year after the planned opening date.
> > You
> > > > see
> > > > >> it was light rail running as commuter rail on a national railroad
> > ...
> > > > but if
> > > > >> you call it light rail (like New Jersey Transit's River line), then
> > you
> > > > keep
> > > > >> the Federal Railroad Administration out of the picture and their
> > buff
> > > > >> strength requirements are not applicable when you build cars. You
> > only
> > > > >> have to provide temporal separation between trains and light rail
> > cars.
> > > > >> You confused? Why shouldn't you be?
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Mar 8, 2011, at 3:47 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> FYI, the official definitions for all modes of public transport, at
> > > > least
> > > > >>> in North America, are those definitions set forth by the American
> > > > Public
> > > > >>> Transportation Association (APTA) through the APTA Standards
> > > > Development
> > > > >>> Program.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 12:42, Fred Schneider <
> > fwschneider at comcast.net
> > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> One of the guys who got this wanted to engage me in a contest over
> > the
> > > > >>>> definition of light rail. I refused because it is always in the
> > mind
> > > > >> of
> > > > >>>> the beholder and in this case, the politician.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Whatever you call it, I'm simply amazed at the passenger counts.
> > My
> > > > >> God,
> > > > >>>> Derrick, 215,000 a day in one corner of the city.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> On Mar 7, 2011, at 11:18 PM, Derrick Brashear wrote:
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>>> LONDON'S DOCKLAND'S LIGHT RAIL, NOT A PART OF THE UNDERGROUND,
> > WAS
> > > > >>>> CREATED TO PROVIDE TRANSPORTATION TO THE EAST INDIA DOCKS IN AN
> > > > ATTEMPT
> > > > >> TO
> > > > >>>> HELP REVITALIZE THE AREA AFTER CONTAINERIZATION SPELLED THE END OF
> > > > THEIR
> > > > >>>> ORIGINAL PURPOSE OF THE DOCKS ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE THAMES
> > RIVER.
> > > > >> The
> > > > >>>> first two lines from Bank Street and Tower Bridge to Isle of Dogs
> > and
> > > > >> from
> > > > >>>> Stratford in East London southward to Isle of Dogs opened in 1987
> > > > using
> > > > >>>> totally automated trains. An extension eastward to Canningtown
> > > > opened
> > > > >> in
> > > > >>>> 1994, one under the Thames to Greenwich and Lewisham saw service
> > in
> > > > >> 1996,
> > > > >>>> three more extensions have opened by 2009 and another will open
> > next
> > > > >> year.
> > > > >>>> Docklands is now transporting over 69 million riders a year which
> > they
> > > > >>>> modestly say exceeds 100,000 a day ... weekdays probably exceed
> > > > 215,000.
> > > > >>>> You will notice that those short two-section articulated trains of
> > > > 1987
> > > > >> are
> > > > >>>> past tense! If you go to visit the Tower of London or Tower Bridge
> > > > >> ...
> > > > >>>> sneak away and look at this!
> > > > >>>> .!
> > > > >>>>> !
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Not only are they past tense, the equipment was sold when the
> > tunnel
> > > > >>>>> to Bank was built, apparently.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> I rode it just over a week ago, from Bank to Lewisham. Seems more
> > > > akin
> > > > >>>>> to the airport people movers than to most light rail.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> --
> > > > >>>>> Derrick
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> --
> > > > >>> Herb Brannon
> > > > >>> In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Herb Brannon
> > > > > In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Herb Brannon
> > > In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Herb Brannon
> In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
>
>
>
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