[PRCo] Re: Troop trains

[Dwight Long]

   Fred   I must admit that my knowledge of Anscochrome is anecdotal.  I ne=
ver used the stuff but what I have been told by others that did is pretty g=
rim.  It may have to do with under what conditions the slides were sto= red.
  My early Ektachrome experience dates to 1955.  The slides I took = then
have color shifted (red cast) but the information is still all there a= nd
sothey can be color corrected.  The key is whether or not the info= rmation
originally recorded on the film is still there, or in what quantiti= y it
is.  There are three German chemical companies which are larger in sales th=
an duPont.  They are: Hoescht, Badische, and Bayer (I think in that or=
der).  duPont was fourth and ICI, before it started selling itself in =
pieces (the sum of the pieces was worth more than the whole), was fifth.  
Yes, the american Agfa/Ansco saga was a fascinating one.    I went digital
in2000 so all my film personal knowledge is pre-2000.&= nbsp; You are
obviously more up to date on that than I.  My last prefe= rred slide films
were Fuji Astra and Agfachrome.  Good results with bo= th, with Agfa a bit
warmer.   Dwight

May 12, 2011 02:49:18 AM, pittsburgh-railways at dement= ia.org wrote:

Actually,= Dwight, I have some old Anscocolor and Anscochrome that is better
than the= Ektachrome E4 process from the early 1960s. And it didn't much
matter who = processed it ... whether Kodak did or I did, that Ektachrome
was$$#^&.= 

I wish, when I was in Germany, I had been using Agfa in 1959-1961,= inside
ofthe "tried and true" yellow box. But we just didn't know, did we= ? I had
seen one demonstration by an Agfa salesman about 1956 or 1957 for a= camera
club in Reading PA, which was nothing more than a sales promotion s= how. I
had also seen 8x10 Ektachrome transparencies made by the Armstrong C= ork
company photographer to illustrate room displays to sell their linoleum= and
floor tiles ... they had been shot within the previous six months to a= year
and the colors simply jumped off the film. The photographer admitted = there
was a noticeable degradation if you let the exposed film sit for a da= y or
two and therefore he processed everything within an hour or two after = he
clicked the shutter. He was also a man noted for being able to tale the =
work crews to go ahead and tear the room down after he took the picture bec=
ause "he knew he had it on film." He never made a mistake. So you know if a=
nyone cou!
ld have convinced us that Ektachrome was a great film, he cou= ld. I'm sure
if you picked up those same 8x10 films today, the yellow and c= yan dyes
havedisappeared over a half century of storage. But we didn't kno= w it
then.

Agreed that once they got to the E-6 process, the dyes w= ere vast
improvement. 

Interestingly, Fuji shut down their US lab. T= hey process everything in
Kodak's E6 process. 

Agfa-Gevaert went bro= ke in 2005 and sold off the Agfa division. I
understand they license a coup= le of films but I think they are only
available in Europe. It is essentiall= y a digital business. The company was
in Leverkusen, Germany in the 1990s a= nd I think then it was a subsidiary
ofa much larger chemical company calle= d BAYER ... you know ... the same
people who bring you aspirin. Bayer is so= rt of Germany's Dupont. 

I also have one roll of Anscochrome 120 tha= t I took in 1958 and processed
the evening I took it. It faded but held up = a lot better than Ektachrome
from the same period. Ansco, or General Analin= e and Film Corporation went
under in the 1980s. By the way, there is a lot = of interesting history here
because the US government took over Ansco in th= e 1940s because it was
after1928, Agfa-Ansco. We didn't like German compan= ies in our midst in
World War II. Wikipedia notes that apparently there was= US government
ownership into the 1960s. 

A lot of the Kodacolor fro= m those years also faded badly. I remember the
Vericolor process from the m= iddle 1970s. Gorgeous colors. It was a lower
saturation material than Kodac= olor and looked much more natural. I
probablytook and processed and printe= d about 20 rolls of it. Had some
really great 8x10s. Of course the dyes in = the prints have faded over 40
years. I quit using it when Kodak announced, = after it was on the market
fora few months, that if you expected to be abl= e to make prints a year
fromnow, you had better store your processed negat= ives in the deep freeze.
Seems the Great Yellow Father up in Rochester had = done some accelerated
fading tests and discovered they were selling crap. 
The only color printing process I used in that period that held up w= as one
by Ciba Giegy (or Ilford) called Cibachrome that was probably simila= r to
Kodachrome. Very slow. Very contrasty. Very saturated. Used only for r=
eversal prints. But those have not faded in 35 years. But pouring the used =
chemistry down the sink wasn't good for the environment either. 

I g= uess we just have to admit that the best thing to come along since
Kodachro= me has been digital. Frankly, I am astonished at the shadow detail
in digit= al and its ability to produce good pictures after dark. I also
lookat the = high definition digital stuff made with home camcorders today
and realize t= hose things can produce images that are as good or better
than70 mm theate= r equipment that was used for some specialty movies like
Sound of Music and= they are in the hands of anyone today! 


On May 11, 2011, at 10:= 07 PM, Dwight Long wrote:

>Fred Am I not correct that GH later r= eplaced the dual motors with a
>single =3D one? Ektachrome's color s= hift can be corrected in Photo Shop. 
>Anscoch=3D rome, whose image = gradually just wasted away, cannot. So be
>thankful =3D that you hav= e Ektachrome. I did not use Agfachrome until the
>90s--goo=3D d stuf= f by then. Dwight
>
>May 11, 2011 01:44:46 AM, pittsburgh-rai= lways at dement=3D ia.org wrote:
>Better you we=3D re using Kodachrome = Bob. All my Ektachomes from the
early
>1960s faded. That=3D E3 or E4= process was a dud. But the Agfachrome dyes
from
>1960 held up very= =3D well. 
>
>Scenicruisers.... buses with two side-by-side d= iesels. I had=3D official
>contact prints at one time of Central Gre= yhound C-675 sent to me =3D from
>Pontiac, Michigan ... they were th= e official General Motors "builders =3D
>photographs" for the PD-450= 1 model. Difference between builders photos of
b=3D
>uses and those = of streetcars was, they took those buses out and found
some=3D
>ver= y pretty locations to photograph them. 
>
>First time I saw a= Scenic=3D ruiser was on display in front of the
terminalin
>Parker= sburg, West Virgini=3D a. Probably Saturday the 3 of September,
1955.
&g= t; (Perpetual calendars are gre=3D at!) In those days Parkersburg had
servi= ce by
>hound east and west on US 50 =3D to Cincinnati and St. Louis = and
Baltimoreand
>Washington (competing with th=3D e B&O), and = north to Pittsburgh and
southto
>Charleston and some local =3D runs= too. 
>
>I remember a driver in Parkersburg telling me about= one o=3D f his friends
who
>had an early local run into Parkersburg= and back out in t=3D he evening.
He
>kept the hound in his own driv= eway. Well, one night his kid =3D took the
bus
>and filled it with o= ther kids to take advantage of the all you=3D stuff
into
>the vehicl= e rate at the local drive-in. I think the story ended=3D with,
>"Aft= erthat he didn't keep it at home any longer." 
>
>In those = =3D days the Greyhound fleet was mostly the 1951 PD-4103s, a lot
of
>= slant windo=3D w PD-4104s but once in a while you would still see those
pr= ewar
>Yellow Coac=3D hes (743s I think). I remember riding one of th= ose Yellows
on a
>Pittsburgh =3D - Philly schedule from York to Lanc= aster one day back in
1953
>or1954, by t=3D hen probably 17 or 18 ye= ars old.
>
>As I think about it now, the local =3D bus compan= y in Lancaster was
running
>late and middle 1930s ACFs in base ser= =3D vice at that time on some
routes.
>Bill Janssen used to refer to= the Wizzard=3D s of Hoboken who kept those
>40-year-old DC electric= coaches running on the =3D Erie-Lackawanna in the
>early1970s. Well= , we had wizzards in Lancaster that=3D kept old ACFs and
>ACF-Brills= running long after they should have expired t=3D oo. There was
one
>= 26-S ACF from 1942 still running in the 1960s on a weekda=3D y
interplant>charter for RCA. One Saturday in 1962 when all the newer coach=3D
e= s were out
>on charters and they were running short of equipment, I = saw tha=3D t
critter
>sailing in the New Holland Pike on a scheduled= Ephrata run. I rem=3D ember
my
>thoughts when I saw it that day wer= e, "My God ... you could legall=3D y
put
>purple antique car license= plates on it." 
>
>
>
>
>
>On = =3D May 10, 2011, at 9:11 PM, Bob Rathke wrote:
>
>>
&g= t;> Dwight, >
>>
>>
>>49 year old memor= ies! On my 1962 trip , t=3D he Greyhounds were
Scenecruisers
>which = had restrooms. They traveled on US 6=3D 6, and (where completed) on
>= I-40.There were numerous rest stops at Greyhou=3D nd Post Houses.
Westboun= d,
>wegot into St. Louis around 4 am and had a coup=3D le of hours u= ntil our
>connecting bus left for Los Angeles. I remember watch=3D i= ng St. Louis
PCC's
>running near the bus station, but it was still d= ark and=3D I didn't have
a
>tripod along. I had a 35mm camera, but t= hat was i n the da=3D ys of low
ASA
>Kodachrome 10 a nd 25. 
>= >
>>
>>
>>Bo=3D b 
>>
>&g= t; 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>----- O= rig=3D inal Message ----- 
>>From: "Dwight Long" >To: pittsbur= gh-railways at dementia.org 
>>Cc: pittsburgh-railways=3D @dementia.= org 
>>Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 7:43:59 PM 
>>Subj= =3D ect: [PRCo] Re: Troop trains 
>>
>>Bob On my trip t= o Rolla I ha=3D d spent the day riding the IT suburban 
>>service= =3D3D and fotting SLPS=3D before heading west to Rolla. The Dog
onwhich> I 
>>ro=3D3D de had no =3D restroom--it was an early versio= n of the Highway
Traveler
>
>>series--=3D and I well remem= ber the rest stop on my trip. It was at a
p=3D3D
>lace 
>>= =3D ; called "The Diamond," or something close to that and I think it
=3D3D= 
>was o=3D n 
>>theold Rt.66. I was in desperate need of i= t, at any rate, hav=3D3D=3D
ingbeen 
>>lulled into a belief that= the bus would have a restroom =3D by virtue
=3D3D of
>the 
>&= gt; fact that the one I rode into STL DID have su=3D ch a facility! And
yes= , that
>
>>is the preferred pronunciation of Rol=3D la! Dw= ight 
>>
>>May 10, 2011 04:20:13 AM, pittsburgh-railway= s@=3D dement=3D3D ia.org
wrote: 
>>
>>I remembe=3D3D r = stopping at the Po=3D st House in Rolla (RAWL-Luh) on a

>>cross-= country=3D3DC3=3D3D82&n=3D3D=3D bsp;Greyhound trip in 1962. 
>&gt= ; 
>>
>>
>>Bob 
>&g=3D t; 
>= >
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Mes= sage ----=3D - 
>>From: "Herb Brannon" To: pittsburgh-railways at de= mentia.org 
>&g=3D t; Sent: Monday, May 9, 2011 9:46:=3D3D 25 PM= 
>>Subject: [PRCo] Re: Tr=3D oop trains 
>>
>&gt= ; I haven't heard that tow=3D3D ns name mentioned =3D in quite a few
years.= 1957
>was 
>>almost a decade before=3D3D my time t=3D her= e but I doubt if it changed
very
>much. 
>>On Mon, May 9, = 2011=3D3D a=3D t 21:02, Dwight Long wrote: 
>>
>>>= =3D3DC3=3D3D82&n=3D3D bsp; =3D =3D3DC3=3D3D82 =3D3DC3=3D3D82 Herb
=3D3D=C3=3D3D82 Back in 1957
>Iwas returni=3D3D ng 
>=3D >east f= rom Rolla, Mo., on the 
>>>Frisco's loc=3D3D3D al passeng=3D e= r train=3D3D , and we went into the
hole at
>least 
>>once= , 
>>>=3D ; and I think tw=3D3D3D ice, =3D3D for a very long t= roop train.
=3D3DC3=3D3D82
>I le=3D arned 
>>laterthat it = 
>>>w=3D3D as headed =3D3D3D to Ft. Leonar=3D d Wood. =3D3DC3= =3D3D82 Dwight

>>>
>>>Ma=3D3D y 9, 2011 05:29:1= =3D 7 PM, pittsburgh-railways at dementi=3D3D3D
a.org
>wrote: 
>&= gt;> =3D3D In the=3D Summer=3D3D3D of 1964 I had a "seasonal" job with
t=he City of
>Akron, 
>>=3D ;> Street 
>>>&a= mp;Hig=3D3D3D hway Dept, as a laborer on a McAdam=3D pavi=3D3D ng
crew. We = had a
>three 
>>day 
>>>job,=3D3D3D in mid=3D= -August, on a city stree=3D3D t which ran along
side the
>main 
= >>>ea=3D st-westrailroad tracks. These tr=3D3D acks served the Ei=
re-Lackawanna, 
>&g=3D t;> Baltimore 
>>>&= =3D3D3D Ohio =3D3D 
>>>and the Penn=3D sylvania railroads. Eve= ry day we worked on that
street=3D3D
>=3D3D3D we 
>>=3D sa= w 
>>>troop train after troop train headed westbound. All th= =3D3D=3D e trains
>us=3D3D3Ded 
>>the 
>>>193= 0s Pullman cars you speak=3D about. Just a f=3D3D ew months later in
&gt= ; Ap=3D3D3Dril, 
>>
>>>1=3D 965 
>>>I >>>departed, l=3D3D ike your brother, on a TWA f=3D light head= ed for
BCT =3D3D3D
>andAIT, 
>>as a 
>>>=3D3D= Combat E=3D ngineer, at Ft Leonard Wood, MO. 
>>>
>>= >
>>>>&g=3D3D t; On=3D3D3D Sun, May 8, 2011 at 22:5= 2, Bob Rathke wrote: >>>
>>>=3D3D ; >A couple of f= ollow-ups, Fred: 
>>=3D >>
>>>>
>>= >&g=3D3D t; 
>>>>=3D3D3D =3D - In March, 1963 I too= k my brother to Greater
Pittsburg=3D3D h
>Airport 
>&g=3D= t; where 
>>>he>boarded a TWA Constellation for his induct= io=3D3D=3D n in the Army
atFt.
>Kn=3D3D3D 
>>ox. 
>= >>>Attached is a p=3D hoto of my broth=3D3D er about to enter the= door,
>look=3D3D3Ding 
>>back=3D 
>>>>tow= ard the camera=3D3D . 
>>>>
>>>>=3D 
&gt= ;>>> 
>>>>By 1964=3D3D3D -67, th=3D3D e Defense De= partm=3D ent was sending a
greater
>number of 
>>>>P= ittsbu=3D3D =3D3D3D rgh i=3D nductees to basic training on trains
fromthe = PRR
>and 
>>P&LE >=3D ;>=3D3D3D stations. I took= photos of the 1930's Pullman cars
kept
>inth=3D3D=3D 
>>o= se 
>>>stations>for use on the inductee trains. 
>= =3D >>>
>>=3D3D >>
>>>>
>&gt= ;>> - L=3D3D=3D 3D ast Fall, my uncle told me abou=3D3D t his rail tr=
ip to basic
>training >in 
>>>1942> (previously, = he had =3D3D never talked about h=3D is WWII
experiences).
>His 
= >>>dad=3D3D3D 
>>>
>>=3D3D &=3D gt;&gt= ;accompanied him to the P&LE station that day where he
boarded =3D
&= gt; =3D3D =3D3D3D a 
>>B&O 
>>>train 
>&gt= ;> to 
>>>=3D ;> Washington, D.C., and=3D3D then on to a= n Army base in=3D3D3D the
South.
>H=3D he said 
>>his 
= >>>>parents=3D3D (my grandparents) didn't k=3D now that=3D3D3D= he
enlistedin the
>Army - 
>>they 
>>&=3D3= D gt;=3D >always thought that he had been dra=3D3D3D fted. 
>>&= gt;> 
>&g=3D t;> =3D3D >
>>>>
>&g= t;>> Last Fall he talked freel=3D y about his =3D3D3D e=3D3D xperienc=
es in the U.S.
>and 
>>Pacific 
>>=3D >>19= 42-45, and I furiously to=3D3D ok n=3D3D3D otes on everything he
sai=3D d. = 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>&g=3D3D t; >>>=3D >Bob 
>>>>
>>>=3D3D3D &= gt;
>>>>
>>=3D >=3D3D >
>>>>= 
>>>>
>>>>
>>&g=3D t;> >>>>=3D3D 
>>>>
>>>>=3D3D3D = ; 
>&=3D gt;>> 
>>>>
>>>>= =3D3D 
>>>>
>>=3D >>----- Original Message = ----- 
>>>&=3D3D3D g=3D3D t; From:=3D "Fred Schneider" >>>>To: pittsburgh=3D3D3D
-railways at dementia=3D =3D3D .org >>>>Sent: Sunday, May 8, 2011 10:40:38 AM 
>>>= =3D ;> =3D3D3D ; =3D3D Subject: [PRCo] Re: Pennsylvania RR Heritage
Pass= enger
>Tr=3D ain 
>>>>=3D3D 
>>>&= =3D3D3D gt; Back on October 8th, 1=3D 958, I entered the army. The
lo=3D3D = cal 
>>recruiter 
>>>(yes=3D =3D3D3D , 
>>&= gt;> guys, RA stood for ragged ass=3D3D ) gave me a ticke=3D t to
Harris= burg on
>=3D3D3D the 
>>
>>>Pennsy. 
>&= gt;>> =3D M=3D3D y parents were on the station platform in Lancaster =
to=3D3D3D say
>good-=3D bye. 
>>>>And dad had one la= st picture of the train disappeari=3D =3D3D3D ng
westw=3D3D
>ith on= e 
>>of 
>>>>those Pennsy busine=3D ss cars on th= e rear end of n=3D3D3D =3D3D umber
25. 
>>>>
>>&a= mp;g=3D t;> That was one hellish long day. Hours o=3D3D f
processin=3D3D= 3D g and
>fin=3D ally a bus 
>>to 
>>>>Phi= ladelphia and another=3D3D bus to =3D Fort Dix. An=3D3D3D d then
standing i= n
>
>>formation 
>>>for >>=3D3D >an = hour. Finally some a-hole serge=3D3D3D ant comes out
of=3D a
>buildi= ng and s=3D3D 
>>ays, 
>>>>"Oh, you guys still he= r=3D e. Wel=3D3D3D l maybe we do something.=3D3D
" And he
>sent 
= >>usto 
>>=3D ;>> dinner at 11 PM for wha=3D3D3D t w= as left over=3D3D in the
reception =3D
>center. Then 
>>to= 
>>>>bed at 1 AM. Then =3D3D3D they w=3D3D=3D oke us up ag= ain at 4 a.m. to
tell us
>wewere 
>>in 
>>>&gt= ; =3D the army now.=3D3D =3D3D3D 
>>>>
>>>>= Thanks Bob, for th=3D e memories. 
>>>>=3D3D 
>>&g= t;> 
>>>>-- A=3D3D3=3D D ttached file removed by Ecartis= and put =3D3D at URL
below -- 
>>>&=3D gt; -- Type: im=3D= 3D3D age/gif 
>>>>-- Size: 1=3D3D 88k (192970 byt=3D es) >>>>-- URL : 
>>>>http:=3D3D3D 
>>&= gt; // =3D =3D3D 
>>>lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railw= ays/TWAConstJackS=3D
tairs63.=3D3D 
>>jpg.gif=3D3D3D 
>>= >
>>>>
>>>=3D ;> 
>>>>>>>>=3D3D 
>>>
>>>
>&= =3D gt;> -- 
>>>Herb Brannon 
>>>In Cuyah=3D3D= 3D o=3D3D ga Val=3D ley National Park 
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>&=3D gt;> 
>>&= g=3D3D t; 
>>
>>
>>-- 
>>Herb B=3D = rannon 
>>In Cuyahoga Valley National Park 
>>
>&= gt; 
>>=3D 
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>
>
>
>=3D 
>