[PRCo] Re: Generic Description and Scanning

Sun May 22 23:45:47 EDT 2011

If there is a dispute, photos can be removed from public circulation as
well, or marked as not for public circulation to begin with.
Jim

On 5/22/11 11:18 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
> I didn't say they, the photographer,couldn't do that. I did say they (PTM)
> have to honor the copyright. Unfortunately, the majority of the
> photographers may be deceased and have donated photos taken prior to 2000
> without any stipulations. Those photos are now public. In the case of PRCo
> company photos they are all open to the public. Some argument exists
> concerning public transit authorities, such as PATransit, inasmuch as the
> photos were taken on a camera purchased by taxpayers, taken by a
> photographer being paid with taxpayer money, and processed with taxpayer
> money. Many say these are public to begin with. If you recall, one day I
> notified you that a man was selling your photos on eBay as if they were his.
> Again, I was merely the messenger. Did you stop the guy from selling your
> items?
> On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 23:05, Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>wrote:
> 
>> But the photographer can restrict its use for so many years after his death
>> under the present copyright laws, Herb, and the museum would have to honor
>> that.
>>
>>
>> On May 22, 2011, at 9:42 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
>>
>>> What would be an example of "unwanted manipulation of the data" ?
>>> What would make any photograph of a PCC running down a PRCo right of way
>>> such a "secret prize" in the 21st Century that it should be hidden away ?
>>>
>>> Also, the museum cannot claim copyright on items where they themselves
>> did
>>> not take the original photograph.
>>>
>>> You're not protecting the secrets of the United States Government
>>> here......they're just photos of streetcars passing through time. Their
>> main
>>> interest, and their main purpose, is that they offer a visual frozen
>> moment
>>> of time. In this moment can be seen not just the vehicle, but the styles
>> and
>>> other technologies of that moment. This, of course, happens only if they
>> are
>>> allowed to be viewed by all interested parties. Like I said before,
>> hiding
>>> them away certainly gives "boasting rights", but that's about all.
>> Remember
>>> what Mr. Vane A. Jones used to put at the top of his magazine, Traction &
>>> Models, "..knowledge is of no value unless shared with others"
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 20:20, Dwight Long <dwightlong at verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>> Read only files should offset the concern about any unwanted
>> manipulation
>>>> of
>>>> the data.
>>>>
>>>> That, however, does not address the issues of copyright protection, use
>> of
>>>> the data for malicious purposes, etc. As I understand it, Museum policy
>> (Ed
>>>> can correct me if I am wrong) has always been to open the archives to
>>>> serious researchers, authors, etc.  But the current arrangements do at
>>>> least
>>>> offer some protection against some yayhoo coming in and using the
>> Museum's
>>>> data for purposes inimical to the Museum's interests.  How could some
>>>> similar level of protection be achieved if the archives are digitally
>> open?
>>>> I realize you stated that they would not have to be, but if they were?
>>>>
>>>> Dwight
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Jim Keener" <jimktrains at gmail.com>
>>>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 3:14 PM
>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Generic Description and Scanning
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The records don't have to be editable by just anyone, if that's what
>> you
>>>>> mean by losing control of the collection.
>>>>> We could supply nice sized images and the captions, metadata, and OCRed
>>>>> text to the public if that's what's desired.  The collection doesn't
>>>>> even have to be public, but I've never been a fan of hiding information
>>>>> if there is no reason to.  Public images can be watermarked quite
>> easily
>>>>> and automatically.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't have a car, but only live in Pgh, otherwise I'd be much more
>>>>> eager to offer my time.  I know high school juniors and seniors are
>>>>> always always looking for community service hours or projects to work
>> on
>>>>> (they are needed to graduate in most districts).  Scanning slides,
>>>>> marking where they are (physically), and entering any text on the slide
>>>>> is defiantly doable by a high schooler (or even me:-p).
>>>>>
>>>>> Most slides I've seen have a year, company, route, and car number on
>>>>> them (some have a location!).  The year, company, and route number can
>>>>> be cross-referenced to automatically get the full route name (save time
>>>>> on typing it in) and the year, company, and car number can
>> automatically
>>>>> grab the type of car it is.  Especially if we had a location for the
>>>>> slide, that's a wealth of usable knowledge right off the bat.  If that
>>>>> information is in a database, it immediately becomes searchable and
>>>>> viewable.
>>>>>
>>>>> The same goes for newspapers and other documents.  Scanning them in is
>>>>> labour intensive but doesn't require a lot of skill beyond being
>> careful
>>>>> (which, admittedly can be an unattainable skill for some people:-\).
>>>>> Once it's all scanned in it can be OCRed and searchable.  As people
>> read
>>>>> the documents, they could tag it as containing information about a
>>>>> specific car or another topic.
>>>>>
>>>>> (Yes, I know OCR isn't perfect, but it can be quite good for a good
>> scan
>>>>> and as people read the documents, they can fill in the occasional wrong
>>>>> word.)
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm more than happy to do what I can from afar.  If I got a car, that
>>>>> would change, but right now I wouldn't be able to scan slides or
>>>>> documents at the museum.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've also never scanned slides before, so I could be completely wrong
>> as
>>>>> to how much human intervention is required.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim
>>>>>
>>>>> PS: This is what I was talking about before on trying to get some CMU
>>>>> kids for a project to do location finding:
>>>>>
>>>>
>> http://server.cs.ucf.edu/~vision/projects/WhereAmI/ProjectPage-WhereAmI.htm
>>>>> Pgh is used because it was one of the first cities to get Street View
>>>>> and is very heavily mapped. (Just go to maps.google.com, search for
>>>>> Pittsburgh, Pa, zoom out a bit an pull the little pegman (yellow dude
>>>>> above the zoom slider) out and watch how much of the map turns blue.
>>>>> Obviouly there are a bunch of small roads not done, but the all of the
>>>>> semi-major roads are done.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/22/11 1:22 PM, Edward H. Lybarger wrote:
>>>>>> Clearly, Ray, the answer is yes, provided staff and funding become
>>>>>> available
>>>>>> and don't require oodles of management supervision.  I'm obviously not
>>>>>> eager
>>>>>> to lose control of the collection, either.  I'm comfortable with the
>>>>>> longevity of today's technology because I believe in migrating data
>>>>>> periodically to keep it up to date.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I am not going to devote the rest of my own life to scanning this
>>>>>> collection beyond museum needs -- both for restoration purposes and
>> for
>>>>>> exhibits and publications -- because there is so very much else to do
>>>> and
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> will be 66 years old come August. Trolleys are not, and never will be,
>>>> my
>>>>>> whole life.  If someone is willing to come in on a regular -- and I
>> mean
>>>>>> regular -- basis to do the work, and if proper scanning equipment and
>>>>>> storage, not to mention an adequate computer, is available, the
>> project
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> be supported and accommodated with some vigor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ed
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
>>>>>> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf Of
>> Ray
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 12:56 PM
>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Generic Description and Scanning
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ok, f= irst my new and improved verizon email account has some quarks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hav= e the 1979 Steeler Superbowl on VHS tape. Still plays and looks
>>>>>>
>>>>>> good = for that technology. Lets see that's about 32 years old now.
>>>>>> However,
>>>>>> I=
>>>>>>
>>>>>> understand the concern with storage media and longevity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It appears to me that every reason under the sun is being used to in=
>>>>>> validate
>>>>>>
>>>>>> such a project. I am tired of going  round and round on= this subject.
>>>> So
>>>>>> point blank question,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ed, in your life time do = you think scanning and Internet posting
>> will
>>>>>> ever
>>>>>> occur?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you choos= e to answer this please a simple yes or no will do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also= , I really hate to use the term "some people say"  but some =
>>>>>> people
>>>>>> say it is all about control.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The museum does not want  to= lose control of the archives. Once on
>> the
>>>>>> internet control is lost.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ray
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Herb Brannon
>>> In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 

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