[PRCo] Re: Generic Description and Scanning
Herb Brannon
hrbran at cavtel.net
Mon May 23 13:33:37 EDT 2011
Thanks Ray. Everyone remember that tomorrow is National Red Tomato Day !!
On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 13:12, <rayprco53 at verizon.net> wrote:
> Herb. I agree with you 100 percent.
> Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Herb Brannon <hrbran at cavtel.net>
> Sender: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
> Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 13:00:55
> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> Reply-to: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Generic Description and Scanning
>
> I'm over it. I've been waiting for PTM to get in touch with me for
> something
> which was supposed to happen in 2010. In case they haven't looked at the
> calendar it's now 2011. I'm sure that having the photos available to
> interested people will never come to pass either.
> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 12:15, Dwight Long <dwightlong at verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > Herb
> >
> > There are really two issues here: 1) Protecting against damage to the
> > Museum's computer files and system by hacking, intended or not; and 2)
> > Control of the material in museum files.
> >
> > Protection against #1 is absolutely essential if on line access is
> granted
> > to the public. I will defer to Ed and the Museum officers to set or
> quote
> > policy on #2. I have already stated what my understanding of it is in
> its
> > present, non-computerized state.
> >
> > Dwight
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Herb Brannon
> > To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> > Sent: Sunday, 22 May, 2011 21:42
> > Subject: [PRCo] Re: Generic Description and Scanning
> >
> >
> > What would be an example of "unwanted manipulation of the data" ?
> > What would make any photograph of a PCC running down a PRCo right of way
> > such a "secret prize" in the 21st Century that it should be hidden away
> ?
> >
> > Also, the museum cannot claim copyright on items where they themselves
> > did
> > not take the original photograph.
> >
> > You're not protecting the secrets of the United States Government
> > here......they're just photos of streetcars passing through time. Their
> > main
> > interest, and their main purpose, is that they offer a visual frozen
> > moment
> > of time. In this moment can be seen not just the vehicle, but the styles
> > and
> > other technologies of that moment. This, of course, happens only if they
> > are
> > allowed to be viewed by all interested parties. Like I said before,
> hiding
> > them away certainly gives "boasting rights", but that's about all.
> > Remember
> > what Mr. Vane A. Jones used to put at the top of his magazine, Traction
> &
> > Models, "..knowledge is of no value unless shared with others"
> >
> > On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 20:20, Dwight Long <dwightlong at verizon.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Jim
> > >
> > > Read only files should offset the concern about any unwanted
> > manipulation
> > > of
> > > the data.
> > >
> > > That, however, does not address the issues of copyright protection,
> use
> > of
> > > the data for malicious purposes, etc. As I understand it, Museum
> policy
> > (Ed
> > > can correct me if I am wrong) has always been to open the archives to
> > > serious researchers, authors, etc. But the current arrangements do at
> > > least
> > > offer some protection against some yayhoo coming in and using the
> > Museum's
> > > data for purposes inimical to the Museum's interests. How could some
> > > similar level of protection be achieved if the archives are digitally
> > open?
> > > I realize you stated that they would not have to be, but if they were?
> > >
> > > Dwight
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Jim Keener" <jimktrains at gmail.com>
> > > To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 3:14 PM
> > > Subject: [PRCo] Re: Generic Description and Scanning
> > >
> > >
> > > > The records don't have to be editable by just anyone, if that's
> what
> > you
> > > > mean by losing control of the collection.
> > > > We could supply nice sized images and the captions, metadata, and
> > OCRed
> > > > text to the public if that's what's desired. The collection doesn't
> > > > even have to be public, but I've never been a fan of hiding
> > information
> > > > if there is no reason to. Public images can be watermarked quite
> > easily
> > > > and automatically.
> > > >
> > > > I don't have a car, but only live in Pgh, otherwise I'd be much more
> > > > eager to offer my time. I know high school juniors and seniors are
> > > > always always looking for community service hours or projects to
> work
> > on
> > > > (they are needed to graduate in most districts). Scanning slides,
> > > > marking where they are (physically), and entering any text on the
> > slide
> > > > is defiantly doable by a high schooler (or even me:-p).
> > > >
> > > > Most slides I've seen have a year, company, route, and car number on
> > > > them (some have a location!). The year, company, and route number
> can
> > > > be cross-referenced to automatically get the full route name (save
> > time
> > > > on typing it in) and the year, company, and car number can
> > automatically
> > > > grab the type of car it is. Especially if we had a location for the
> > > > slide, that's a wealth of usable knowledge right off the bat. If
> that
> > > > information is in a database, it immediately becomes searchable and
> > > > viewable.
> > > >
> > > > The same goes for newspapers and other documents. Scanning them in
> is
> > > > labour intensive but doesn't require a lot of skill beyond being
> > careful
> > > > (which, admittedly can be an unattainable skill for some people:-\).
> > > > Once it's all scanned in it can be OCRed and searchable. As people
> > read
> > > > the documents, they could tag it as containing information about a
> > > > specific car or another topic.
> > > >
> > > > (Yes, I know OCR isn't perfect, but it can be quite good for a good
> > scan
> > > > and as people read the documents, they can fill in the occasional
> > wrong
> > > > word.)
> > > >
> > > > I'm more than happy to do what I can from afar. If I got a car,
> that
> > > > would change, but right now I wouldn't be able to scan slides or
> > > > documents at the museum.
> > > >
> > > > I've also never scanned slides before, so I could be completely
> wrong
> > as
> > > > to how much human intervention is required.
> > > >
> > > > Jim
> > > >
> > > > PS: This is what I was talking about before on trying to get some
> CMU
> > > > kids for a project to do location finding:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://server.cs.ucf.edu/~vision/projects/WhereAmI/ProjectPage-WhereAmI.htm
> > > > Pgh is used because it was one of the first cities to get Street
> View
> > > > and is very heavily mapped. (Just go to maps.google.com, search for
> > > > Pittsburgh, Pa, zoom out a bit an pull the little pegman (yellow
> dude
> > > > above the zoom slider) out and watch how much of the map turns blue.
> > > > Obviouly there are a bunch of small roads not done, but the all of
> the
> > > > semi-major roads are done.
> > > >
> > > > On 5/22/11 1:22 PM, Edward H. Lybarger wrote:
> > > >> Clearly, Ray, the answer is yes, provided staff and funding become
> > > >> available
> > > >> and don't require oodles of management supervision. I'm obviously
> > not
> > > >> eager
> > > >> to lose control of the collection, either. I'm comfortable with
> the
> > > >> longevity of today's technology because I believe in migrating data
> > > >> periodically to keep it up to date.
> > > >>
> > > >> But I am not going to devote the rest of my own life to scanning
> this
> > > >> collection beyond museum needs -- both for restoration purposes and
> > for
> > > >> exhibits and publications -- because there is so very much else to
> do
> > > and
> > > >> I
> > > >> will be 66 years old come August. Trolleys are not, and never will
> > be,
> > > my
> > > >> whole life. If someone is willing to come in on a regular -- and I
> > mean
> > > >> regular -- basis to do the work, and if proper scanning equipment
> and
> > > >> storage, not to mention an adequate computer, is available, the
> > project
> > > >> will
> > > >> be supported and accommodated with some vigor.
> > > >>
> > > >> Ed
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
> > > >> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf
> Of
> > Ray
> > > >> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 12:56 PM
> > > >> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> > > >> Subject: [PRCo] Generic Description and Scanning
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Ok, f= irst my new and improved verizon email account has some
> > quarks.
> > > >>
> > > >> I hav= e the 1979 Steeler Superbowl on VHS tape. Still plays and
> > looks
> > > >>
> > > >> good = for that technology. Lets see that's about 32 years old now.
> > > >> However,
> > > >> I=
> > > >>
> > > >> understand the concern with storage media and longevity.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> It appears to me that every reason under the sun is being used to
> in=
> > > >> validate
> > > >>
> > > >> such a project. I am tired of going round and round on= this
> > subject.
> > > So
> > > >> point blank question,
> > > >>
> > > >> Ed, in your life time do = you think scanning and Internet posting
> > will
> > > >> ever
> > > >> occur?
> > > >>
> > > >> If you choos= e to answer this please a simple yes or no will do.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Also= , I really hate to use the term "some people say" but some =
> > > >> people
> > > >> say it is all about control.
> > > >>
> > > >> The museum does not want to= lose control of the archives. Once on
> > the
> > > >> internet control is lost.
> > > >>
> > > >> Ray
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below --
> > > > -- Type: application/pgp-signature
> > > > -- Desc: OpenPGP digital signature
> > > > -- Size: 906 bytes
> > > > -- URL :
> > > >
> http://lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/06-signature.asc
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Herb Brannon
> > In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Herb Brannon
> In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Herb Brannon
In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
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