[PRCo] Re: 'maybe' not East McKeesport

Sun Nov 27 20:49:07 EST 2011

Herb

My idea of a "Pole Ferry" is a ferry operated by an immigrant from Poland. 
Or a ferry in Poland.  Not Poland, Ohio, though--don't think any needed 
there!

Dwight

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Herb Brannon" <hrbran at cavtel.net>
To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 6:48 PM
Subject: [PRCo] Re: 'maybe' not East McKeesport

> That possibility also exists that maybe this is something other than what
> it appears to be. Remember, this is a photography studio. If you start
> looking through the entire collection you will see both interesting and
> absurd pics. One is the aforementioned "new Buick" (that car stayed new 
> for
> a looooong time) "waiting at Cincinnati, Ohio for the "pole ferry" to 
> cross
> the river." Now, if you think the Ohio River is a big river when it leaves
> downtown Pittsburgh you should see it at Cincinnati. It's wider and deeper
> than at Pittsburgh and has strong currents. I doubt if they were waiting 
> on
> a "pole ferry" to get across the river. The boat, the car and everyone on
> the boat would be in Louisville before they could "pole" across from Ohio
> the Kentucky. My idea of a "pole ferry" is a guy standing at the rear of a
> boat with a long pole, pushing said boat across the water by touching the
> bottom of the stream with the pole and pushing across the stream. The
> stream would have to be very docile which the Ohio River is not. This is
> not to mention the length of the pole and the torque required to push the
> boat across would mean that Superman, Wonder Woman or Batman would have to
> be the pole tender.
> There are several of these types of explanations connected to photos in
> this collection.
>
> As for the photo we are looking at I am betting on a mislabeled or
> contrived pic. Mislabeled do to the hill height, tree types and condition
> of the electric railroad. Contrived, maybe. I'm not satisfied with the
> perspective of the railroad tracks on the opposite side of what may be a
> depression. The tracks are very close looking at the right side of the
> photo but bend away what I perceive to be too quickly in relation to the
> distance on the dirt road as they move toward the left side of the photo.
>
> I'll keep looking. Maybe something will become available for comparison.
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 18:07, John Swindler <j_swindler at hotmail.com> 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hi Herb
>>
>> I saw that and thought --  canal?????   Then decided Naaah.  In 1906
>> whould be more prominent.
>>
>> I don't know why I keep thinking Ohio river to left and somewhere between
>> E. Liverpool and Wheeling.  But this is just idle speculation.  Need to
>> consider some other possibilities - like perhaps one of those West Penn
>> operations around Leechburg, or perhaps Westmoreland County Ry.  Wonder 
>> if
>> Indiana County Ry followed any railroad in a valley.  What's down around
>> Parkesburg/Marietta area??   Not good to have a pre-conceived notion with
>> this sort of inquiry.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > From: hrbran at cavtel.net
>> > Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 18:30:25 -0500
>> > Subject: [PRCo] Re: 'maybe' not East McKeesport
>> > To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
>> >
>> > Now to confuse the issue even more.
>> > Look very closely at the space between the crude "guardrail" at the 
>> > side
>> of
>> > the road and the first railroad track. Look at this area where the last
>> two
>> > railroad cars are sitting. Between the closest railroad track and the
>> fence
>> > (in front of and below the hopper car) doesn't there appear to be a
>> > depressed area running the length of the photo horizontally? Maybe a
>> stream
>> > or another railroad?? Look through the planks on the "guardrail" fence
>> > (ignore the plant life below the guardrail fence) and all along that
>> > horizontal line can be seen plant growth, debris and ballast on the 
>> > side
>> of
>> > what looks like a depression.
>> >
>> > Let me know if anyone thinks that is what I am seeing. That's also a 
>> > good
>> > way to Photoshop two pics together.
>> >
>> > On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 13:11, Derrick Brashear <shadow at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hm. None of the stuff near South Fork (Penn Central or Souther 
>> > > Cambria)
>> > > had the electric track at roadside with railroad track to the north,
>> did it?
>> > >
>> > > Derrick
>> > >
>> > > On Nov 26, 2011, at 1:04 PM, Herb Brannon <hrbran at cavtel.net> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > One thing I thought about when I first looked at the photo is that
>> the
>> > > > trolley line construction does not seem up to the usually high
>> > > construction
>> > > > standards of PRCo.
>> > > > It appears as though the tracks are sinking in the mud every time 
>> > > > it
>> > > rains.
>> > > > Look at the wheel track marks in the road, next to the trolley
>> tracks,
>> > > and
>> > > > the dark spot which has not yet completely dried from the last 
>> > > > rain.
>> PRCo
>> > > > was usually good about keeping standing water off the tracks,
>> > > > notwithstanding general floods, of course.
>> > > > Also, to me, the "1974" on the auto looks superimposed. Maybe not,
>> but it
>> > > > just doesn't look right.
>> > > >
>> > > > On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 12:13, Derrick Brashear <shadow at gmail.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> On Nov 26, 2011, at 11:25, "Edward H. Lybarger" 
>> > > >> <trams2 at comcast.net
>> >
>> > > >> wrote:
>> > > >>
>> > > >>> What about the Lincoln Highway in the Loyalhanna gorge through
>> Chestnut
>> > > >>> Ridge, with the Ligonier Valley RR adjacent?
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> what would the rail line with the electric overhead be?
>> > > >>
>> > > >>> -----Original Message-----
>> > > >>> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementix.org
>> > > >>> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementix.org] On Behalf
>> Of
>> > > John
>> > > >>> Swindler
>> > > >>> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:38 AM
>> > > >>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
>> > > >>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: 'maybe' not East McKeesport
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> How about "east of McKeesport"???
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>> Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 08:20:19 -0800
>> > > >>>> From: pcc_sr at yahoo.com
>> > > >>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: 'maybe' not East McKeesport
>> > > >>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> I wondered the same about a river, Mr.Swindler.
>> > > >>>> Coupling that with Mr.Barry's comments make the position of RR 
>> > > >>>> and
>> > > >>>> Trolley track seemed reversed doesn't it. RRs often follow river
>> > > >>>> valleys. Seems to be a rather large yard possible here, or 
>> > > >>>> several
>> > > >>>> passing tracks. The few RR cars seem to be on a grade compared 
>> > > >>>> to
>> the
>> > > >>>> "main" in the foreground.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> Mr.Brannon noted the foliage; the hill seems steep and high for
>> Pgh.
>> > > >>>> area. Because of OH reference I
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> thought of Ohio River Valley of Wheeling area. It has been
>> 5-decades
>> > > >>>> since being that way; I can't remember steepness of hills.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> To reconsider the E-McKeesport link I am looking at the WP maps
>> along
>> > > >>>> the Youghiogheny yet all alignments here seem to put the RR
>> against
>> > > >>>> the river cancelling the alignment in the picture. I was never
>> along
>> > > >>>> this river so am not familiar with the hills; they would still
>> seem to
>> > > >>>> be lower than those in the picture.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> The WP map shows "East McKeesport" as between Wilmerding and
>> Trafford.
>> > > >>>> There is a creek/river and RR running east-west; the RR branches
>> to
>> > > >>>> both sides of the river east of E-McKeesport. This would then
>> suggest
>> > > >>>> the Trafford line. Hills here seemed to be higher than those
>> closer
>> > > >>>> to Pgh. Still much of the trolley line allowed the RR closer to
>> the
>> > > >>>> river as I remember, at least latter day alignment. Mr.Barry may
>> have
>> > > >>>> hit the nail on the head.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> "East McKeesport" must be marked on the photograph for it to be
>> > > >>>> included here. Whether location or address of photographer or
>> other
>> > > >>>> could be debated.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> It seems the Stewarts left one "key word" out of their
>> > > >>>> description: "1974" Anyone familiar with local or PA state 
>> > > >>>> license
>> > > >>>> plates in 1906?
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> Has everyone assured their Black Friday deals?
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> Phil
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>> ________________________________
>> > > >>>>> From: John Swindler <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
>> > > >>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
>> > > >>>>> Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 9:29 AM
>> > > >>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: not East McKeesport
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> I was wondering if there was a river off of the left side of 
>> > > >>>>> the
>> > > >>> picture???? The collection includes some pix from southern Ohio.
>> > > Could
>> > > >>> this have been enroute, perhaps around the Steubenville area?? As 
>> > > >>> a
>> > > >>> disclaimer, this is total speculation NOT based on any evidence.
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> Happy Thanksgiving holiday
>> > > >>>>> John
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>>> From: mrb190 at pitt.edu
>> > > >>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
>> > > >>>>>> Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 09:08:05 -0500
>> > > >>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: not East McKeesport
>> > > >>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>> The first thing that came to my mind was that it was the
>> Trafford
>> > > >>> route. But, the railroad tracks should be below the streetcar
>> > > tracks....
>> > > >> Not
>> > > >>> sure.
>> > > >>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>> ________________________________________
>> > > >>>>>> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementix.org
>> > > >>>>>> [pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementix.org] On Behalf Of
>> > > >>>>>> Derrick Brashear [shadow at gmail.com]
>> > > >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 10:03 PM
>> > > >>>>>> To: Pittsburgh Railways Group
>> > > >>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] not East McKeesport
>> > > >>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>> so where the heck is it?
>> > > >>>>>>
>> http://bradystewartphoto.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/20th-Centur
>> > > >>>>>> y-Automobiles-Trucks-and-Boats/G0000flbWWbccdiw/I0000RZxXcxRETYA
>> > > >>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>> --
>> > > >>>>>> Derrick
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > Herb Brannon
>> > > > In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Herb Brannon
>> > In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Herb Brannon
> In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
>
>
> 