[PRCo] Re: Streetcars in the Strip District?

[Herb Brannon]

The "message" must have been buried under all that British food.
On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 10:59, Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>wrote:

> Again, Herb, you should have read the former message.   Rebecca Street and
> Reedsdale Street are the same street.
>
>
> On Aug 30, 2011, at 7:47 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
>
> > Dwight,
> > You answered my question. When I said, "what is 20-REBECCA" is I actually
> > meant WHAT is it, a district, a street, or what. On the PTM map there is
> no
> > reference to anything named Rebecca. So it was the former name of
> Reedsdale
> > then. I'm with you, the "modern" route numbers make more sense inasmuch
> as
> > everyone on The List does not have the old numbering system. I for one,
> am
> > really not interested in the old system since I know the system from the
> > 1950s onward. Thanks for the proper answer.
> > On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 19:39, Dwight Long <dwightlong at verizon.net>
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Fred
> >>
> >> I should have prefaced my remarks by saying "in modern times."
> >>
> >> You are one of the few who has access to, or cares about, the old PRC
> route
> >> numbers as distinct from destination sign numbers.  I should have
> thought
> >> of
> >> that and that you had some historic basis for assigning "Rebecca" to Rt.
> >> 17.
> >>
> >> The more worrisome thing is that I am thinking of the 1914 era as "olden
> >> times,"  when the abandonment of (modern) route 20 seems like a short
> time
> >> ago--i.e. recent history.  It was sixty freaking years ago!
> >>
> >> When Reedsdale St. was Rebecca St (when Allegheny was a city as well as
> a
> >> county) it had a couple of (youthful) residents who later were quite
> >> famous--Alexander and Mary Cassatt.  It is said that Andy Carnegie also
> >> lived on Rebecca for a while in his early Pittsburgh (well, Allegheny)
> >> days.
> >>
> >> Dwight
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Fred Schneider" <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> >> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 6:47 PM
> >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Streetcars in the Strip District?
> >>
> >>
> >>> Point of order ... you are correct for your era Dwight but it went by
> >>> several names.
> >>>
> >>> Route:   112A Rebecca Street Shuttle (on the route cards)
> >>> Destination:   REBECCA STREET SHUTTLE
> >>> Destination:   17 REEDSDALE
> >>>
> >>> Rebecca and Reedsdale streets are equivalent ... different years,
> >>> different names.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Aug 30, 2011, at 4:51 PM, Dwight Long wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Fred
> >>>>
> >>>> 17 was NOT Rebecca.  Rebecca was 20, and was not a shuttle.  17 was
> >>>> Reedsdale and was a shuttle.  Both came off in 1951. I rode both,
> might
> >>>> have
> >>>> been in the last month, but alas, took no pictures of either.  Tracks
> >> and
> >>>> overhead for at least 20 were in for years after bustitution.  Maybe
> PRC
> >>>> had
> >>>> visions of restoring to trams some day?  Reason given for abandonment
> >> was
> >>>> construction in the lower Point area (Gateway Center) and supposed
> >>>> removal
> >>>> of the "temporary" wooden ramp to the Manchester Bridge.  Said ramp
> was
> >>>> still there many years later!  17 perished  because PRC was in the
> >>>> process
> >>>> of getting rid of all shuttles and it was convenient to do so at the
> >> time
> >>>> 20
> >>>> was bustituted, simply, I think, by routing the bus over its route.
> >>>>
> >>>> Shadeland was gone before my time. I have no clue.
> >>>>
> >>>> Dwight
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Fred Schneider" <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> >>>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org>
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 12:06 PM
> >>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Streetcars in the Strip District?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> As Fonzi would have said,  Correctimundo.   Some shuttles such as 78
> >>>>> Laketon Road carried the number of the longer route 78 Oakmont simply
> >>>>> because, when it was shortened, that was practical.   And the 9
> Charles
> >>>>> shuttle took the number of the shortened version of the Perrysville
> >>>>> car ---- 9 Perrysville to Charles Street and Perrysville Avenue once
> >>>>> double end cars were removed from Perrysville Avenue in the 1920s.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In some cases the shuttles were remnants of longer lines that once
> ran
> >>>>> downtown such as 29 Thornburg.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But you are absolutely correct John.   The shuttles often took the
> >>>>> numbers
> >>>>> of previously abandoned lines in the 'hood.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Now explain to be how 16 Superior - Shadeland and 17 Rebecca Street
> got
> >>>>> their numbers.   There had to be exceptions to the belief that all
> >>>>> shuttles got numbers from abandoned routes.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Aug 30, 2011, at 11:45 AM, John Swindler wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> It appears that route numbers were assigned in 1914 to routes
> >> operating
> >>>>>> downtown, E Liberty and Oakland - places were there were multiple
> >>>>>> routes.
> >>>>>> There was no need to assign a route number to the various shuttle
> >>>>>> routes.
> >>>>>> That came later as route numbers were "freed" thru what we would now
> >>>>>> call
> >>>>>> "rationalization" of the PRC system.  One of my retirement hobbies
> >> will
> >>>>>> be to see what the Pittsburgh newspapers have to say about these
> early
> >>>>>> routes.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Cheers
> >>>>>> John
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> From: dwightlong at verizon.net
> >>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
> >>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Streetcars in the Strip District?
> >>>>>>> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 11:25:02 -0400
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> John
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Yes, in anything resembling our time they certainly were. 51 was
> the
> >>>>>>> Bon
> >>>>>>> Air Shuttle, 52 was the Carson Street shuttle (from the end of line
> >>>>>>> loop
> >>>>>>> upriver), and 53 was, of course, Carrick.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I knew Derrick could not have meant 51--at least in the parlance
> that
> >>>>>>> any PRC enthusiast living today would remember!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Dwight
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>> From: John Swindler
> >>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
> >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 30 August, 2011 08:19
> >>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Streetcars in the Strip District?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> 53 used the Tenth St. bridge and Second Ave. to downtown. 50 used
> >>>>>>> Carson
> >>>>>>> St. and Smithfield St. bridge. Both were on Carson 10th to 18th St.
> >>>>>>> Then
> >>>>>>> 53 went up 18th to Brownsville Rd., while 50 continued on Carson to
> >>>>>>> 30th
> >>>>>>> St.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> In early years there were two routes that used Tenth St. bridge and
> >>>>>>> two
> >>>>>>> routes on Carson that used Smithfield St. I think Tenth St. bridge
> >> had
> >>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>> short turn at 22nd and Carson. Routes numbers 50, 51. 52 and 53
> were
> >>>>>>> originally used on these Carson St. routes. But some of the numbers
> >>>>>>> were
> >>>>>>> shifted around over the years.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The shuttle to 36th St. was the remnant of the line from Carson to
> >>>>>>> Hays
> >>>>>>> on south side of Mon River. There was a Pittsburgh & Birmingham/PRC
> >>>>>>> carbarn at Carson and 30th St., which might have had something to
> do
> >>>>>>> with 30th being terminal of route 50 Carson.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> just trying to keep current (lol)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Cheers
> >>>>>>> John
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 19:04:43 -0400
> >>>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Streetcars in the Strip District?
> >>>>>>>> From: shadow at gmail.com
> >>>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 6:55 PM, Dwight Long <
> >> dwightlong at verizon.net>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Derrick
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Please explain how Rt. 50 diverged from Rt 51, or even vice
> versa!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> sorry, should have said 53, not 51!
> >>>>>>>> i have bus on the brain.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> Derrick
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Herb Brannon
> > In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>


-- 
Herb Brannon
In Cuyahoga Valley National Park