[PRCo] Re: Fw: [Mileage] PAT Penn Sta. Spur

Mon Apr 16 16:59:25 EDT 2012

Herb

Thanks for that info.

So modern day Rt. 49 was exactly the same as earlier Rt. 46.  It makes sense 
now.

I also have learned why 46 was called Brownsville.  The old name for New 
Arlington Avenue was Brownsville.  After the name of that street was 
changed, the route name did not make much sense. The Beltzhoover route as we 
know it, the former 46-Brownsville, was changed in number from 46 to 49 in 
1946.

There really was no need for a loop under Rts 44/47/48 east of South Hills 
Jct., as cars could, and did, make a complete circle around the station 
building.  The only benefit of a loop further out for this purpose would 
have been to lessen congestion at the Junction itself.  If I remember to do 
so, I will look up some old material and see if I can learn more about the 
uses of the loop.

As to the 52 issue, I suppose there will always be some Philistines who will 
be ignorant of, or ignore, history.  They do so at their own peril!

Dwight

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Herb Brannon" <hrbran at cavtel.net>
To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org>
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 10:35 AM
Subject: [PRCo] Re: Fw: [Mileage] PAT Penn Sta. Spur

> OK, back again.
> Here is the June, 1937 routing's for 46 and 49:
>
> 46-BROWNSVILLE:  City Loop: Water St, to Grant St, to Liberty Ave, to Wood
> St, to Smithfield St Bridge, Carson St, to New Arlington Ave, to Chalfont
> St, Beltzhoover (District). End of Line.
>
> 49-BELTZHOOVER: City Loop: Water St, to Grant St, to Liberty Ave, to Wood
> St, to Bridge, Tunnel, to Warrington Ave, to Chalfont St, Beltzhoover
> (District). End of Line. Operates during rush hours only.
>
> As far as a loop under the old bridge near the Private R of W and
> Warrington Avenue I should think that it was used for shifting purposes at
> So Hills Jct. I have never heard of a route using it as a dedicated turn
> around loop. I know the old bridge was still there when I began at So
> Hills, and there may have been a loop there, in 1972. There were some old
> PRCo PCCs being cut up for scrap in that area in 1972 also. I always
> wondered why there was a bridge sitting on solid ground but have since
> learned that the cut was filled in with the bridge remaining. All that
> disappeared in 1973 and 1974 when upgrades were made to So Hills Jct.
>
> As far as where the PATransit Route 52 ran, take a look at the map of that
> route which I posted earlier in this thread.  Also, the use of "52" made 
> no
> impact on using the old PRCo 52-36TH STREET TRANSFER route number again. 
> In
> the 1980s not many people even thought about streetcars running out Carson
> Street let alone the extension from 30th to 36th Streets. The majority of
> people thought of it as a new number.
>
> On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 08:04, Herb Brannon <hrbran at cavtel.net> wrote:
>
>> Dwight,
>> I will give you a complete answer to your routing questions within the
>> next hour or two. I have to make a run to PNB and right back home.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 23:39, Dwight Long <dwightlong at verizon.net> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Herb
>>>
>>> Do you have the exact routing for Rt. 46?  I have a picture of a Jones
>>> car,
>>> which AIR is single end, signed for this line but on common track.  Was
>>> the
>>> outer end same as Rt. 49?  And if 49 used the tunnel back in early days,
>>> did
>>> 46 use New Arlington Avenue?  Also, there was a loop just outbound on 
>>> Rts.
>>> 44 and 48 from South Hills Jct., which went under those routes in an
>>> underpass.  The underpass was filled in to make a park and ride lot in 
>>> the
>>> early 50s, but
>>> whatever route it was that used the loop had gone away well before that.
>>> There are conflicting stories which say the route that turned there was 
>>> 46
>>> or 47.  Can you shed any light on this?
>>>
>>> Where did the Arlington-Warrington line go?  The name of it would 
>>> suggest
>>> same routing as the 48, i.e. through the tunnel, not up New Arlington
>>> Avenue.
>>>
>>> 52-Allentown is confusing because of the actual Rt. 52, which as I 
>>> stated
>>> earlier, was an extension of Rt. 50.  That was a very poor choice of
>>> number.
>>>
>>> As to Brown Line, unless it was named for Bob Brown, which I strongly
>>> doubt,
>>> I don't want to know.  That is PAT Newspeak.
>>>
>>> Dwight
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Herb Brannon" <hrbran at cavtel.net>
>>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2012 10:00 PM
>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Fw: [Mileage] PAT Penn Sta. Spur
>>>
>>>
>>> > It was 49-ARLINGTON-WARRINGTON when I was running PCCs in the 1970s 
>>> > and
>>> > 1980s. Later it became 52-ALLENTOWN and after that it was known as the
>>> > BROWN LINE. But yes, back in "the day" it was 49-BELTZHOOVER and 
>>> > before
>>> > that 46-BROWNSVILLE. During the Rt 46 era the 49 ran via the Mt.
>>> > Washington
>>> > Tunnel according to "Pittsburgh by Trolley and Bus" issued by PRCo in
>>> > June,
>>> > 1937.
>>> > Click on the blue links below to view the PATransit 52-ALLENTOWN
>>> schedule
>>> > and map from 1993.
>>> >
>>> > On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 17:21, Dwight Long <dwightlong at verizon.net>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> List
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> BTW, the former service along New Arlington Avenue was Rt.
>>> >> 49-Beltzhoover.
>>> >> The service that PAT cobbled together for their "over the hill, not
>>> >> through
>>> >> it" line used part of Rt. 49 and part of Rt. 48-Arlington to get from
>>> the
>>> >> Panhandle bridge to South Hills Jct. I assume that track will be left
>>> in
>>> >> situ for use in case of tunnel mishaps or maintenance. Rt. 52 was a
>>> >> shuttle
>>> >> ("Transfer" in PRC speak) running upriver on Carson Street from the 
>>> >> Rt.
>>> >> 50-Carson loop.  It was gone by the late 40s or early 50s.
>>> >>
>>> >> Dwight
>>> >>
>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >> From: "Herb Brannon" <hrbran at cavtel.net>
>>> >> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org>
>>> >> Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2012 4:17 PM
>>> >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Fw: [Mileage] PAT Penn Sta. Spur
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> > Click on the blue link below to view the current (as of 3/25/2012)
>>> rail
>>> >> > system map of PATransit. There is no service shown to Penn Station.
>>> >> > Also
>>> >> > no
>>> >> > service is shown on the old Rt 52-Allentown (Brown Line). I'm not
>>> sure
>>> >> > I
>>> >> > understand what you mean by "No more service along former route 
>>> >> > 37?".
>>> >> > The
>>> >> > Blue Line and the Red Line both serve Castle Shannon. I was just on 
>>> >> > a
>>> >> Blue
>>> >> > Line train last week which ran via Overbrook to Castle Shannon.
>>> >> > On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 16:05, Joshua Dunfield <joshuad at cs.cmu.edu>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> On 15 April 2012 21:45, Dwight Long <dwightlong at verizon.net> 
>>> >> >> wrote:
>>> >> >> > List
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Is this correct?  No more service along former route 37?
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Maybe he meant the Arlington Avenue service (52 Allentown, more
>>> >> >> recently called the Brown Line).  Wikipedia says that was canceled
>>> in
>>> >> >> March 2011, though, not 2012.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> > Also, I had thought service to Union Station had ended some time
>>> >> >> > ago.
>>> >> >>  Did it end and then get reinstated, or what?  When I rode the 
>>> >> >> first
>>> >> >> afternoon trip a few years ago, the motorman had to stop and 
>>> >> >> unlock
>>> >> >> the
>>> >> >> gate in the cyclone fence and move it off the tracks.  Hardly 
>>> >> >> rapid
>>> >> >> transit!
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> IIRC, in the early '00s there were exactly two afternoon trips 
>>> >> >> from
>>> >> >> Penn Station.  Wikipedia backs me up there:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> "As late as 2001, the line would only see, if any, up to two
>>> afternoon
>>> >> >> rush hour trains. ... The station continues to be used in 
>>> >> >> extremely
>>> >> >> limited circumstances, including usage as part of the Port
>>> Authority's
>>> >> >> detoured transportation routes following Super Bowl XLV on 6
>>> February
>>> >> >> 2011.[6]"
>>> >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penn_Station_(PAT_station)
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> -j.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > --
>>> >> > Herb Brannon
>>> >> > In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below --
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>>> >> > -- Size: 1564k (1602350 bytes)
>>> >> > -- URL :
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/PATransitRailMap3%2025%2020120001.jpg
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Herb Brannon
>>> > In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below --
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>>> > -- Size: 846k (866491 bytes)
>>> > -- URL :
>>> >
>>> http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/52-Allentown%20LRV%20schedule0002.jpg
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below --
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>>> > -- Size: 1001k (1025343 bytes)
>>> > -- URL :
>>> >
>>> http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/52-Allentown%20LRV%20schedule0001.jpg
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Herb Brannon
>> In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Herb Brannon
> In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
>
>
> 