[PRCo] Re: Bowser PRCo/PATransit PCC cars.

[John Swindler]

  Yep, amazing, isn't it.  That's the trouble with a bunch of oldsters.  (:>)
 > From: hrbran at cavtel.net
> Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 11:10:18 -0400
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Bowser PRCo/PATransit PCC cars.
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
> 
> It always amazes me how I can post an email (subject: PRCo/PATransit PCC
> Cars) concerning the fact that Bowser Mfg. Co is going to do a second run
> of the HO scale PRCo/PAT PCC cars which then gets corrupted into "My
> Boyhood Jobs" then really gets off-base by turning into "Labor Relations In
> A Depressed Economy".
> On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 11:00 AM, Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>wrote:
> 
> > Yes.   But the corollary is that eventually management does figure out
> > that the workers were milking it.   Mike H. tells a great story of his
> > enforced servitude at Armstrong's Marietta (ceiling tile) plant last summer
> > during the strike.   Mike is regularly in management doing fire tests in
> > the USA, England, Belgium, Germany with Armstrong products to make sure
> > they meet specifications.  But last summer he was working six day weeks, 12
> > and 16 hour days in the ceiling plant and being taken in and out under
> > armed guard.   OK?  Well, his first job was to load trailers of the
> > outgoing product.  He loaded four times the normal volume.  Guess what?
> > The corporation set a new standard for their union workers.   They also had
> > a oven fire in the plant and discovered that the previous union policy was
> > to shut down for a day for routine fire to let things cool down, then clean
> > it up the next day.  Well, new policy is since the union doesn't want to
> > clean up, they now have a private fir!
> >  m under contract that shows up within 30 minutes, does the clean up and
> > the guys are back at work within an hour or two.   The strike taught
> > management how the union was milking it.   The result was a number of jobs
> > were lost when the plant reopened …. we don't need you any longer.  And the
> > insult was that, after being on strike all summer, the final new offer was
> > less than the original final offer.
> >
> > In the midst of it the Macon, Georgia plant was supposed to go out also.
> > Their guys looked at what was happening in Lancaster County and decided,
> > "Hey guys, Macon doesn't have many good jobs.   We're already the highest
> > paid workers in town.   Don't screw with it.  Don't mess up like those guys
> > in the Marietta PA plant."   They voted down the strike and offended the
> > national union who told them they had to do what we tell you to do.
> >
> > Sometimes, in a recession, it does not pay to act like a fool when all the
> > others around you are losing their heads.
> >
> >
> > On Aug 20, 2012, at 9:38 AM, John Swindler wrote:
> >
> > >  Hi Dwight Perhaps it is more of a miracle that the PG managed to
> > survive despite my being one of their carriers.   My stint in a steel mill
> > was summer of 1966 at Homestead Works.  Was a grinder/laborer, which meant
> > that job was to grind out imperfections in steel plate which would then be
> > welded.  Then grind smooth the weld.  First night shift, two of us worked
> > for about an hour before an 'old timer' came over and said:  "you boys need
> > to take it easy for the rest of the night.  You're going to go back to
> > school in the fall.  If you keep this up, you'll ruin the incentive pay for
> > this job."   That was a very strong lesson on one of the contributions
> > towards the demise of what became the rust belt.  Workers aren't stupid.
> >  If given the opportunity, too many will figure out how to milk the system.
> > A question I've often pondered is why I went for a college degree in
> > accounting instead of following my father into a mill job.  It ended up as
> > a self financed struggle.  There wa!
> >  s!
> > >  nothing in my youth to even suggest attending college.  Perhaps it was
> > another instance of the "Baxter" effect - John worked in PRC/PAT office, he
> > wasn't an operator. Retirement seems to bring out these sorts of
> > recollections.  (not missing the daily commute in the least)  It was a
> > different world. CheersJohn
> > >> From: dwightlong at verizon.net
> > >> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
> > >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Bowser PRCo/PATransit PCC cars.
> > >> Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 22:24:37 -0400
> > >>
> > >> John
> > >>
> > >> Well, perhaps you are wrong about no one else being interested.  I am,
> > but probably because my youthful work pattern was similar to yours, except
> > that I carried the Press rather than the
> > >> PG.  (maybe that is why the latter survived whilst the former did not)
> > >>
> > >> Steel contracts were on a three year cycle.  My summer job in 1959 was
> > cut off in mid July by the monster of all steel strikes.  By 1965 I was
> > working for USS and all the mills in the Valley, even the most obsolete,
> > were going full tilt to build inventory against a possible strike.  I rode
> > the special train in from Lumber Street yard to Gary with provisions for
> > management types who might be locked in for the duration.  This was the
> > last day of the strike.  It was settled at the last hour˜I don‚t know what
> > happened to the provisions!
> > >>
> > >> Must really be getting old as I enjoy reminisces of this type.
> > >>
> > >> Dwight
> > >>
> > >> From: John Swindler
> > >> Sent: Friday, 17 August, 2012 18:13
> > >> To: Pittsburgh Railways
> > >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Bowser PRCo/PATransit PCC cars.
> > >>
> > >> That's why I suggested your father's pay scale would be a better
> > comparison for number of hours needed to buy a PennLine PCC car back in the
> > dark ages.  'Us' kids were paid peanuts - minimum wage didn't apply. Your
> > right about today's generation.  The wife cuts the grass next door -
> > neither son nor husband seem interested.  Barky (the wonder dog) and I have
> > observed several other wives cutting the grass on our walks.
> >  Understandable if husband has heart condition, but often these are young
> > households.   As you know, Fred, my dad was a steel worker, and there
> > seemed to be strikes every two years.  Somewhere early on got the idea that
> > if I wanted some spending money, delivering the Post Gazette would help.
> >  Started in 4th grade, and not long after started taking first 620 pix of
> > PERC fantrips.  Connection??  I haven't a clue.  Suspect just happened.
> >  Then graduated to setting pins in bowling alley in ninth grade.  Pay
> > increased from $3 per week to $3 per night when leagues !
> >  i!
> > > n !
> > >> session.    Enough of this "when I was your age....." talk.  Others not
> > interested. Trust all is wellJohn   > From: fwschneider at comcast.net
> > >>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Bowser PRCo/PATransit PCC cars.
> > >>> Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 15:54:27 -0400
> > >>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
> > >>>
> > >>> I vas doink it for my father and he vas cheap.  He only pait me 25
> > cents an hour for labor around da house.   Da turd year I gut a raise ta 30
> > cents.
> > >>> Dad was remodling an old farm house that he bought in the winter of
> > 1949-1950 on an as you go basis.   Ed would appreciate this because, as I
> > pointed out before, both fathers went through Carnegie Tech in the
> > depression and had similar philosophies.   Dad traded in a smaller house in
> > Penn Hills, Allegheny County for a much larger house on two acres which he
> > redid as he went along with a lot of sweat equity ∑ he was his own
> > electrician, plumber, yada yada yada.   It was four or five years before
> > all the drywall in the bedrooms was taped and painted but the point that we
> > need to make was he ended up with a house redone out of his paychecks with
> > no mortgage.   I remember digging about 18 inches of clay out of the
> > basement so he could concrete it when I was 15 ∑ that was about 300 cubic
> > feet of hard, compacted yellow clay that you had to dig loose with a
> > digging bar or pick and shovel, then carry over to the outside cellar door
> > and load it into a two wheel cart, then use!
> >   a!
> > >>  six!
> > >>  h!
> > >>> orse tractor and a block and tackle to pull it up the incline out of
> > the cellar, then hitch the tractor to the cart and haul it up in the back
> > field and dump it and spread it.  That was probably the most miserable of
> > all the tasks he assigned to me.   But it did pay for a couple of Penn
> > Scale models and a lot of film and printing paper and chemicals.
> > >>>
> > >>> Do I regret it?   Truthfully?   I think a lot of our kids would be a
> > lot better off today if parents demanded more than they do so that they
> > grew up understanding that you have to work for what you get; that you are
> > not privileged and entitled.   I think of the 16 and 15 year old kids next
> > door who cannot even bring the empty garbage cans in when they get home
> > from school ∑ dad has to do it.   They cannot cut the grass ∑ mom and dad
> > have to do that.   If I wanted to eat, I cut the grass.   You learn a lot
> > by being told by parents that this is your task.   The lesson learned was
> > the you get something for working and there was nothing wrong with menial
> > work.  I spent many years working in management.   I also spent quite a few
> > selling for Sears, for a local camera store, peddling ice cream door to
> > door off the back of a truck, and working as a janitor in a department
> > store ∑ it wasn't all shoveling coal on the Strasburg.   You learn a lot
> > from those other jobs.  My f!
> >  at!
> > >> her ha!
> > >> d !
> > >>> a great philosophy and it carried through to his kids ∑. doesn't
> > matter what you do for a living as long as you do it well.   We need good
> > janitors and good bus drivers just as much as we need good surgeons.
> > >>>
> > >>> End of sermon.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Aug 17, 2012, at 3:06 PM, John Swindler wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hi Fred Since money is just a medium of exchange, how many hours
> > would you have had to work 50 years ago to buy a Penn Scale Models PCC
> > compared with how many hours would you have had to work in 2012 for white
> > metal kit today??  Probably your dad's wage scale would be more
> > appropriate, and your 2012 state pay would be about 2.5 hours, considering
> > taxes. As a warning, this is posed by someone who has been browsing thru
> > old MR from 1990s and RMC/MR from 1950s/60s.  I was surprised.  Brass
> > trolley imports were going from $19.95 to $24.95, early issues, increasing
> > to prices in $30 range by late 1960s. The November 1961 issue of RMC has
> > the Galbreath article on PRC M-1.  That issue got pulled for PTM. CheersJohn
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Aug 15, 2012, at 6:01 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Back in 19-ought-6 they were that price. Today you can get the
> > white metal
> > >>>>>> Bowser cars for 87.17. You can also buy a PRCo/PAT 1700-series
> > boday from
> > >>>>>> IHP for 55.00 then the Bowser PCC drive unit w/ floor for 72.00 and
> > have a
> > >>>>>> well detailed, good running Pittsburgh car for 127.00. IHP makes HO
> > and N
> > >>>>>> scale PCC, Rapid Transit, Commuter Rail and LRV bodies (and
> > complete RTR
> > >>>>>> units also) from various systems across the US.  The IHP
> > craftmanship is
> > >>>>>> excellent and Mike Bartel, the owner, stands behind his products.
> > The
> > >>>>>> selection changes throughout the year. Many items are also sold on
> > eBay.
> > >>>>>> The IHP website is:::::Imperial Hobby
> > >>>>>> Productions<http://ihphobby.tripod.com/update.html>
> > >>>>>> .
> > >>>>>> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 2:44 PM, Fred Schneider <
> > fwschneider at comcast.net>wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Aren't they supposed to cost $16.95 from Pennsylvania Scale Models
> > in
> > >>>>>>> Pottsville?   :<)   That's what I paid for mine.   I think I was
> > 13 years
> > >>>>>>> old then.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On Aug 15, 2012, at 1:08 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> In case anyone wanted a Bowser PRCo H.O. scale PCC and missed it,
> > they
> > >>>>>>> may
> > >>>>>>>> be re-ordered.  I received the attached list of PCC cars which
> > may now be
> > >>>>>>>> ordered for upcoming second production runs. The due date is
> > shown. PRCo
> > >>>>>>>> and other available transit company names are also shown:
> > >>>>>>>> *Bowser Items  8-14-12*
> > >>>>>>>> *
> > >>>>>>>> Available for Backorder
> > >>>>>>>> Executive Line Diesel Locos
> > >>>>>>>> (not in stock but more may be backordered)
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> *
> > >>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >>>>>>>> *
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> --
> > >>>>>> Herb Brannon
> > >>>>>> In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Herb Brannon
> In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
> 
>