[PRCo] Re: Ass-orted crazy subjects
Fred Schneider
fwschneider at comcast.net
Mon Aug 20 16:54:16 EDT 2012
NO. Unemployment figures do not include people have given up looking for work. They have withdrawn from the labor force. The definition of unemployed is out of work and having looked for work in the last month and that means making a substantive effort to find work … not just asking the neighbor if his company is hiring. The numbers are based on a national household survey. You are asked first if you are working. If you answer no, then you are asked what you have done to find work. You are never asked if you are unemployed … that is for the interviewer to determine based on how you answer the questions. When I started in that business, the national household survey included one percent of the homes and it provided data that would produce a national unemployment rate that was within 0.1 9 months out of ten. In other words, if it shows 8.5, the true rate if you counted all 311 million people (actually only the people over age 16) would be between 8.4 and 8.6 percent 9 times out of 10. That was in the 1960s when the population was in the180-200 million range. They have since reduced the same to around 1/2 of one percent of the homes in the nation and gives about the same reliability because the population has increased significantly. Of course adapting that survey to cities and states produces a lower reliability … you cannot expect to have the same chance of a balanced sample in the Pittsburgh MSA with a little over a million people as you can in the nation with over 300 million. You get a lot more anomalies in area data but we cannot afford to bang on 10 percent of the doors every month, now can we…...
The 10 percent that would rather strike than have a job probably include some who believe the bosses who tell them we can make it better for you if you just listen us (those same union leaders at US Steel who wanted to have a fancy office after the mills were gone) and some people who figure that as long as they are getting some benefits from the union for not working, that's better than getting out of bed in the morning.
By the way, those who are striking are considered to be in the labor force … not working, not unemployed but involved in a labor management dispute.
On Aug 20, 2012, at 4:28 PM, John Swindler wrote:
>
>
> The next question might be whether the unemployment numbers include those who have given up looking for work??? Suspect unemployment is a lot worse then advertised, but that's just a hunch. Had a chat with auto mechanic today. He's one of my 'status of economy' markers. Says people aren't buying cars much anymore, and not even getting their cars fixed. Just running them until they fail - because of economy. As for Oregon Trail, as a trivia comment, the first automobile to cross the USA (in 1903 - it's in the Smithsonian) passed one of the last wagon trains heading towards Oregon. And as for people heading west, not just west coast. In 1830s, a Swindler 'cousin' traveled by wagon for 18 days from Ohio to Livingston County, Illinois. (I have a copy of the local Ill. newspaper) Pennsylvanians were moving into western Ohio and Indiana in the 1810s and 1820s. Virginians and Pennsylvanians were moving into what's now Fayette County in the mid-1770s, which is why some of !
> the easiest Fayette deeds are in Cumberland and Westmoreland County. What's difficult to comprehend is that it wasn't really all that many generations ago. There are some jobs coming back to the USA because of quality control issues. And then there is the union issue with Boeing trying to open up a plant in South Carolina. Would not take any jobs away from Washington state workers, but unions filed an unfair labor grievance. Haven't seen anything recently about this. Several times, Fred, you have lamented the demise of printed newspapers. Heard yesterday that what's really killing newspapers is "Craig's List". It's free and don't have to buy a newspaper to see what's forsale. As for produce being imported, just visit the local supermarket - and that includes Wal-Mart. And its not just central and south America that is the source. What's also hurt US producers has been the lack of water in mid-west and central California. Meanwhile I saw that PAT union workers app!
> roved new contract by 10-1 margin. What's interesting is that some wo
> uld still rather strike than have a job. CheersJohn > From: fwschneider at comcast.net
>> Subject: [PRCo] Ass-orted crazy subjects
>> Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 15:24:32 -0400
>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
>>
>> I changed the tag line for Herb.
>> Yup John.
>>
>> Following the Oregon Trail across Nebraska and Kansas is a real revelation. in the 1840s, 50s and 60s something like 80,000 people walked across the country to establish a new life on the northwest coast. All told, maybe 400,000 marched west to Utah, California and Oregon. Walk, hike, tramp, march are the operative words. The wagons carried the family goods and perhaps the pregnant and nursing moms and babies. The rest walked so as not to overload the oxen for 1500 miles or so.
>>
>> Then suddenly one day in 1869 we had trains to the Bay Area. We could make the trip in less than a week. Less than a hundred years later we could go half way around the world in a day.
>>
>> It changed the entire way we made our living. We no longer had little cottage industries in our small villages. We now have worldwide industries but most people really fail to understand the concept that it means that dollars chase the cheapest labor. We will build that Volkswagen in Mexico if its cheaper than building it in Germany. Actually we are building VW Passats now in Chattanooga because it's cheaper than converting converting Euros to Dollars and freighting them across the ocean. But I notice that our president is not taking credit for a new VW plant in Tennessee … oh, the unions would kill him for taking credit for thousands of new jobs in a right-to-work state. I think the equivalent Audis will be built there soon too.
>>
>> Entrepreneurs don't like paying people to prop up their chins on a shovel! :<)
>>
>> For someone else, last night I made up a list of the cities with the worst unemployment in the United States. Some of you might like to see it.
>>
>> These are non-seasonally adjusted June 2012 numbers:
>> El Centro, CA 28.2%
>> Merced CA 17.8%
>> Yuba City CA 17.8%
>> Modesto CA 15.8%
>> Hanford - Corcoran CA 15.5%
>> Fresno CA 15.3%
>> Visalia, CA 15.1%
>> Madera - Chowchilla, CA 14.6%
>> Vineland, NJ 14.0%
>> Bakersfield, CA 13.9%
>> Rocky Mount, NC 13.2%
>> Las Vegas, CA 12.8%
>> Riverside - San Bernardino CA 12.6%
>> Gainesville GA 12.5%
>> Palm Coast, FL 12.5%
>> Chico, CA 12.1%
>> Atlantic City, NJ 12.1%
>> McAllen, TX 12.0
>>
>> I'm not sure how many of you see what I see. I see two cities, Las Vegas and Atlantic City, which are hurting because virtually every state and indian reservation now has gambling. There are some exceptions like Utah but even that isn't 90% Morman any longer … why I even photographed a light rail car in front of an Islamic Mosque in West Valley, Utah three weeks ago.
>>
>> The other cities except for Riverside - San Bernardino all have one thing in common. They are heavily agricultural labor markets. And Riverside has above average agricultural employment, or did have. Vineland, NJ used to be an asparagus growing area; now we have asparagus in our local supermarkets all year round from Mexico and south and central America. Made me wonder how many of these cities are hurting because we are getting our produce from south of the border? Looks to me like we no longer have the Mexicans coming over the border to harvest food; maybe they found a way to send us the food already grown and stay home where they would prefer to be….. :<) And you will not be able to change it with higher tariffs because the head of WalMart will bribe the senate and congress to make sure it doesn't happen. Sorry … that's not bribery, it's called lobbying.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 20, 2012, at 11:57 AM, John Swindler wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> And then union workers complain about jobs being moved overseas. What unions also fail to realize is that they are in competition with innovation. For thousands of years, mankind lived a subsistence existance. But over past couple hundred years we have moved thru industrial revolution, thru electrical revolution, and now are in a silicon revolution. (I just made this up, so feel free to snipe). CheersJohn
>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Bowser PRCo/PATransit PCC cars.
>>>> From: fwschneider at comcast.net
>>>> Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 11:00:47 -0400
>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
>>>>
>>>> Yes. But the corollary is that eventually management does figure out that the workers were milking it. Mike H. tells a great story of his enforced servitude at Armstrong's Marietta (ceiling tile) plant last summer during the strike. Mike is regularly in management doing fire tests in the USA, England, Belgium, Germany with Armstrong products to make sure they meet specifications. But last summer he was working six day weeks, 12 and 16 hour days in the ceiling plant and being taken in and out under armed guard. OK? Well, his first job was to load trailers of the outgoing product. He loaded four times the normal volume. Guess what? The corporation set a new standard for their union workers. They also had a oven fire in the plant and discovered that the previous union policy was to shut down for a day for routine fire to let things cool down, then clean it up the next day. Well, new policy is since the union doesn't want to clean up, they now have a privat!
> e !
>> f!
>>> ir!
>>>> m under contract that shows up within 30 minutes, does the clean up and the guys are back at work within an hour or two. The strike taught management how the union was milking it. The result was a number of jobs were lost when the plant reopened …. we don't need you any longer. And the insult was that, after being on strike all summer, the final new offer was less than the original final offer.
>>>>
>>>> In the midst of it the Macon, Georgia plant was supposed to go out also. Their guys looked at what was happening in Lancaster County and decided, "Hey guys, Macon doesn't have many good jobs. We're already the highest paid workers in town. Don't screw with it. Don't mess up like those guys in the Marietta PA plant." They voted down the strike and offended the national union who told them they had to do what we tell you to do.
>>>>
>>>> Sometimes, in a recession, it does not pay to act like a fool when all the others around you are losing their heads.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 20, 2012, at 9:38 AM, John Swindler wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Dwight Perhaps it is more of a miracle that the PG managed to survive despite my being one of their carriers. My stint in a steel mill was summer of 1966 at Homestead Works. Was a grinder/laborer, which meant that job was to grind out imperfections in steel plate which would then be welded. Then grind smooth the weld. First night shift, two of us worked for about an hour before an 'old timer' came over and said: "you boys need to take it easy for the rest of the night. You're going to go back to school in the fall. If you keep this up, you'll ruin the incentive pay for this job." That was a very strong lesson on one of the contributions towards the demise of what became the rust belt. Workers aren't stupid. If given the opportunity, too many will figure out how to milk the system. A question I've often pondered is why I went for a college degree in accounting instead of following my father into a mill job. It ended up as a self financed struggle. There!
> !
>>> wa!
>>>> s!
>>>>> nothing in my youth to even suggest attending college. Perhaps it was another instance of the "Baxter" effect - John worked in PRC/PAT office, he wasn't an operator. Retirement seems to bring out these sorts of recollections. (not missing the daily commute in the least) It was a different world. CheersJohn
>>>>>> From: dwightlong at verizon.net
>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Bowser PRCo/PATransit PCC cars.
>>>>>> Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 22:24:37 -0400
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, perhaps you are wrong about no one else being interested. I am, but probably because my youthful work pattern was similar to yours, except that I carried the Press rather than the
>>>>>> PG. (maybe that is why the latter survived whilst the former did not)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steel contracts were on a three year cycle. My summer job in 1959 was cut off in mid July by the monster of all steel strikes. By 1965 I was working for USS and all the mills in the Valley, even the most obsolete, were going full tilt to build inventory against a possible strike. I rode the special train in from Lumber Street yard to Gary with provisions for management types who might be locked in for the duration. This was the last day of the strike. It was settled at the last hour˜I don‚t know what happened to the provisions!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Must really be getting old as I enjoy reminisces of this type.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dwight
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: John Swindler
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, 17 August, 2012 18:13
>>>>>> To: Pittsburgh Railways
>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Bowser PRCo/PATransit PCC cars.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's why I suggested your father's pay scale would be a better comparison for number of hours needed to buy a PennLine PCC car back in the dark ages. 'Us' kids were paid peanuts - minimum wage didn't apply. Your right about today's generation. The wife cuts the grass next door - neither son nor husband seem interested. Barky (the wonder dog) and I have observed several other wives cutting the grass on our walks. Understandable if husband has heart condition, but often these are young households. As you know, Fred, my dad was a steel worker, and there seemed to be strikes every two years. Somewhere early on got the idea that if I wanted some spending money, delivering the Post Gazette would help. Started in 4th grade, and not long after started taking first 620 pix of PERC fantrips. Connection?? I haven't a clue. Suspect just happened. Then graduated to setting pins in bowling alley in ninth grade. Pay increased from $3 per week to $3 per night when leag!
> ue!
>>> s !
>>>> i!
>>>>> n !
>>>>>> session. Enough of this "when I was your age....." talk. Others not interested. Trust all is wellJohn > From: fwschneider at comcast.net
>>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Bowser PRCo/PATransit PCC cars.
>>>>>>> Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 15:54:27 -0400
>>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I vas doink it for my father and he vas cheap. He only pait me 25 cents an hour for labor around da house. Da turd year I gut a raise ta 30 cents.
>>>>>>> Dad was remodling an old farm house that he bought in the winter of 1949-1950 on an as you go basis. Ed would appreciate this because, as I pointed out before, both fathers went through Carnegie Tech in the depression and had similar philosophies. Dad traded in a smaller house in Penn Hills, Allegheny County for a much larger house on two acres which he redid as he went along with a lot of sweat equity ∑ he was his own electrician, plumber, yada yada yada. It was four or five years before all the drywall in the bedrooms was taped and painted but the point that we need to make was he ended up with a house redone out of his paychecks with no mortgage. I remember digging about 18 inches of clay out of the basement so he could concrete it when I was 15 ∑ that was about 300 cubic feet of hard, compacted yellow clay that you had to dig loose with a digging bar or pick and shovel, then carry over to the outside cellar door and load it into a two wheel cart, then!
> u!
>>> se!
>>>> a!
>>>>>> six!
>>>>>> h!
>>>>>>> orse tractor and a block and tackle to pull it up the incline out of the cellar, then hitch the tractor to the cart and haul it up in the back field and dump it and spread it. That was probably the most miserable of all the tasks he assigned to me. But it did pay for a couple of Penn Scale models and a lot of film and printing paper and chemicals.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do I regret it? Truthfully? I think a lot of our kids would be a lot better off today if parents demanded more than they do so that they grew up understanding that you have to work for what you get; that you are not privileged and entitled. I think of the 16 and 15 year old kids next door who cannot even bring the empty garbage cans in when they get home from school ∑ dad has to do it. They cannot cut the grass ∑ mom and dad have to do that. If I wanted to eat, I cut the grass. You learn a lot by being told by parents that this is your task. The lesson learned was the you get something for working and there was nothing wrong with menial work. I spent many years working in management. I also spent quite a few selling for Sears, for a local camera store, peddling ice cream door to door off the back of a truck, and working as a janitor in a department store ∑ it wasn't all shoveling coal on the Strasburg. You learn a lot from those other jobs. !
> My!
>>> f!
>>>> at!
>>>>>> her ha!
>>>>>> d !
>>>>>>> a great philosophy and it carried through to his kids ∑. doesn't matter what you do for a living as long as you do it well. We need good janitors and good bus drivers just as much as we need good surgeons.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> End of sermon.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Aug 17, 2012, at 3:06 PM, John Swindler wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Fred Since money is just a medium of exchange, how many hours would you have had to work 50 years ago to buy a Penn Scale Models PCC compared with how many hours would you have had to work in 2012 for white metal kit today?? Probably your dad's wage scale would be more appropriate, and your 2012 state pay would be about 2.5 hours, considering taxes. As a warning, this is posed by someone who has been browsing thru old MR from 1990s and RMC/MR from 1950s/60s. I was surprised. Brass trolley imports were going from $19.95 to $24.95, early issues, increasing to prices in $30 range by late 1960s. The November 1961 issue of RMC has the Galbreath article on PRC M-1. That issue got pulled for PTM. CheersJohn
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Aug 15, 2012, at 6:01 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Back in 19-ought-6 they were that price. Today you can get the white metal
>>>>>>>>>> Bowser cars for 87.17. You can also buy a PRCo/PAT 1700-series boday from
>>>>>>>>>> IHP for 55.00 then the Bowser PCC drive unit w/ floor for 72.00 and have a
>>>>>>>>>> well detailed, good running Pittsburgh car for 127.00. IHP makes HO and N
>>>>>>>>>> scale PCC, Rapid Transit, Commuter Rail and LRV bodies (and complete RTR
>>>>>>>>>> units also) from various systems across the US. The IHP craftmanship is
>>>>>>>>>> excellent and Mike Bartel, the owner, stands behind his products. The
>>>>>>>>>> selection changes throughout the year. Many items are also sold on eBay.
>>>>>>>>>> The IHP website is:::::Imperial Hobby
>>>>>>>>>> Productions<http://ihphobby.tripod.com/update.html>
>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 2:44 PM, Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Aren't they supposed to cost $16.95 from Pennsylvania Scale Models in
>>>>>>>>>>> Pottsville? :<) That's what I paid for mine. I think I was 13 years
>>>>>>>>>>> old then.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 15, 2012, at 1:08 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In case anyone wanted a Bowser PRCo H.O. scale PCC and missed it, they
>>>>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>>>>>> be re-ordered. I received the attached list of PCC cars which may now be
>>>>>>>>>>>> ordered for upcoming second production runs. The due date is shown. PRCo
>>>>>>>>>>>> and other available transit company names are also shown:
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Bowser Items 8-14-12*
>>>>>>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>>>>>>> Available for Backorder
>>>>>>>>>>>> Executive Line Diesel Locos
>>>>>>>>>>>> (not in stock but more may be backordered)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Herb Brannon
>>>>>>>>>> In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
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