[PRCo] Re: 4366 on Nevergreen

[Fred Schneider]

Thank you very much Herb.

December versus February?   I have multiple pictures of those cars on the back track at Keating out the trees.  My grandfather died in December 1953 and I seem to recall seeing several 4300s idle on the track at the far rear of Keating car house when we went out for the funeral.  That would have been the regular car and the spare.     

I always had a big problem with the word abandon because in most cases we didn't totally walk away, and route 12 is a perfect example.   Pittsburgh Railways did not abandon the people out on Evergreen Road.   Far from it.  They provided a substitute service with the Manchester - Evergreen bus route. 

Route 8 Perrysville wasn't abandoned.  It was replaced by 11-D Perrysville bus. 

Where did this word abandon come from?   A railfan term Herb?

Glad you used the dictionary.   It's use in that context is one of my pet peeves.  

Authenticity of most railfan histories?   Some are better than others.  There is no one who can successfully proofread his or her own writing.  We all need one or two or three independent and preferably subject sensitive proofreaders.  The brain sees only what it thought it committed to paper, not what was actually placed there, unless wait several weeks or months or years and then read it when you have forgotten what thought you wrote.   Those who work in a total vacuum make a lot of errors.   

I remember Donald Duke telling me that he sat down at a table with several friends and they read out loud the galley proofs for the books that Golden West Books was publishing.  Did it catch all the mistakes.   Don had a pretty good record but I have still seen glitches that got through. 

A few years ago I attempted to put all the route card information on a computer file.   I gave one disc of it to one of the chaps at PTM to proof read.   Too much work.   That person never did it.   Why did I put it on computer?  Because many schools today are not teaching cursive.   There will come a time when trying to read those cards, which are in cursive, will be like reading a foreign language.   But I need someone in the Pittsburgh area to read the file at the museum and the cards to find out what mistakes I put into them.  


On Feb 14, 2012, at 12:08 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:

> Here is a line from a website about Pittsburgh Rlwys Co.:
> "1954 witnessed only one outright abandonment, with North Side route 12
> Evergreen closing in February."
> Here is a table from a website called "eNotes" which shows a start date in
> '08 and an end date in '59:
> 12 Evergreen Road via East Street  1908
> 1959[<http://www.enotes.com/topic/Pittsburgh_Railways#cite_note-per-20>The
> table in the booklet, "The Street Railways of Pittsburgh, 1857 - 1959" by
> T. E. Parkinson, lists the following: 12-Evergreen - Feb 54 as the closing
> date.
> 
> Makes one wonder about how accurate any history books, about any area's
> history, really are. Why are several PRCo Rt 12 sources indicating Feb 54?
> 
> Now to the semantics of "abandonment" versus "last day of service"........
> 
> Who are "We" ?
> From Mr. Webster:::::
> a-ban-don -- to give up; forsake; to give in to emotion -- . a-ban-don-ment
> n.
> 
> Nothing was given up, forsaken, or given in to until December 6. To say
> ".....last day of scheduled (or) revenue service...." then that would be
> December 5.
> 
> I'm sticking with December 6 for Rt. 12 "abandonment". "We" can say it
> however "they" want.
> 
> 
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 08:45, Edward H. Lybarger <trams2 at comcast.net>wrote:
> 
>> Re abandonment dates:  We try to cite the last day of scheduled service as
>> the termination date.  In the case of Route 12, that was Saturday, 12-5-53.
>> December 6 was the first day without the trolleys.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementix.org
>> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementix.org] On Behalf Of Herb
>> Brannon
>> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 10:49 PM
>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: 4366 on Nevergreen
>> 
>> For what it's worth:::::
>> 
>> *1946 PRCo Guide Routing:
>> 
>> 12-Evergreen
>> Evergreen Rd at City Line, Inbound to East St, North Ave, Sandusky St,
>> Robinson, Ninth St Bridge, Ninth, Penn to Seventh; Outbound via Seventh,
>> Seventh St Bridge, Sandusky, North Ave, Madison, East St, Evergreen Rd to
>> City Line.
>> RUNS RUSH HOURS ONLY
>> 
>> All other times from East St at Evergreen to City Line and return to East &
>> Evergreen only.
>> 
>> *
>> Also the book Pittsburgh Railways, by R Beal, indicates the line abandoned
>> 6 December 1953. The last car operated on Rt 12 was 4393 and it was also
>> the
>> last  double-end car in regular service on the PRCo system.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Herb Brannon
> In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
> 
> 
>