[PRCo] Re: 4366 on Nevergreen

[Dwight Long]

Fred

What I am saying is that because the car used to return us from Arden was the car used on the last run of Rt. 12, some folks have conflated the date of its last run, that is from Arden, with the date of its last run on Rt. 12.

Dwight

From: Fred Schneider 
Sent: Tuesday, 14 February, 2012 16:18
To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org 
Subject: [PRCo] Re: 4366 on Nevergreen
Does not make sense, Dwight.   The unique portion of route 12 was beyond north of East Street on McKnight Road.

Are you suggesting that because the car ran out of Keating and in East Street, the fans counted it as a final route 12 car?



On Feb 14, 2012, at 1:27 PM, Dwight Long wrote:

> Herb
> 
> I will give you my take on why Feb. 1954 is used, and I was there, so have some knowledge of it.
> 
> Rt. 12 was abandoned in December 1953—take your pick of the 5th or 6th.  That is FACT.
> 
> The last car to have run on Rt. 12 was the ferry car that in the afternoon of 7 February 1954 came down to Arden to return the pax who had ridden WP 832, PRC 3756 and PRC M1 to their new home at Arden.  It got quite a bit of publicity in the enthusiast trade as such, with mention that it had been the last car to run on Rt. 12 and was now the last pax-carrying car on the Washington interurban line south of Drake.  IMHO that is why the confusion arises.
> 
> Dwight
> 
> From: Herb Brannon 
> Sent: Tuesday, 14 February, 2012 12:08
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org 
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: 4366 on Nevergreen
> Here is a line from a website about Pittsburgh Rlwys Co.:
> "1954 witnessed only one outright abandonment, with North Side route 12
> Evergreen closing in February."
> Here is a table from a website called "eNotes" which shows a start date in
> '08 and an end date in '59:
> 12 Evergreen Road via East Street  1908
> 1959[<http://www.enotes.com/topic/Pittsburgh_Railways#cite_note-per-20>The
> table in the booklet, "The Street Railways of Pittsburgh, 1857 - 1959" by
> T. E. Parkinson, lists the following: 12-Evergreen - Feb 54 as the closing
> date.
> 
> Makes one wonder about how accurate any history books, about any area's
> history, really are. Why are several PRCo Rt 12 sources indicating Feb 54?
> 
> Now to the semantics of "abandonment" versus "last day of service"........
> 
> Who are "We" ?
> From Mr. Webster:::::
> a-ban-don -- to give up; forsake; to give in to emotion -- . a-ban-don-ment
> n.
> 
> Nothing was given up, forsaken, or given in to until December 6. To say
> ".....last day of scheduled (or) revenue service...." then that would be
> December 5.
> 
> I'm sticking with December 6 for Rt. 12 "abandonment". "We" can say it
> however "they" want.
> 
> 
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 08:45, Edward H. Lybarger <trams2 at comcast.net>wrote:
> 
>> Re abandonment dates:  We try to cite the last day of scheduled service as
>> the termination date.  In the case of Route 12, that was Saturday, 12-5-53.
>> December 6 was the first day without the trolleys.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementix.org
>> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementix.org] On Behalf Of Herb
>> Brannon
>> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 10:49 PM
>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: 4366 on Nevergreen
>> 
>> For what it's worth:::::
>> 
>> *1946 PRCo Guide Routing:
>> 
>> 12-Evergreen
>> Evergreen Rd at City Line, Inbound to East St, North Ave, Sandusky St,
>> Robinson, Ninth St Bridge, Ninth, Penn to Seventh; Outbound via Seventh,
>> Seventh St Bridge, Sandusky, North Ave, Madison, East St, Evergreen Rd to
>> City Line.
>> RUNS RUSH HOURS ONLY
>> 
>> All other times from East St at Evergreen to City Line and return to East &
>> Evergreen only.
>> 
>> *
>> Also the book Pittsburgh Railways, by R Beal, indicates the line abandoned
>> 6 December 1953. The last car operated on Rt 12 was 4393 and it was also
>> the
>> last  double-end car in regular service on the PRCo system.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Herb Brannon
> In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
> 
> 
> 
> 
>