[PRCo] Re: 23-Sewickley & PRC assignments....

[Phillip Clark Campbell]

Mr.Long,


Yes!  Those turns are the latter 1940s, 'very late' in the game isn't it.


I found a "Trolley Guide," Mr.Long, so I set aside my original thoughts.
The calendar is 2nd-half-1937 and all-1938.  The downtown loop
for the 23-line, "at this date," is the typical West End loop on Penn,
Stanwix, Liberty, Fancourt, and back to Penn isn't it.  According to
Google's map it is 2.2-miles from Ingram to Corliss and W.Carson.
In pre-dawn AM the majority would turn toward Sewickley with a
couple heading downtown to establish service.  A car coming from
Tunnel travels at least twice the distance to Corliss and Carson
doesn't it.  This car needs to at least loop downtown like Smithfield,
3rd, Wood, Ft.Pitt, Smithfield and out W. Carson.  If the pull-outs from
Tunnel go directly to the downtown West End loop via Grant and
Liberty it adds extra time to get to Corliss; 15-min extra as a guesstimate
and 10-cars make for an extra 2-hours daily just for this one move.
I am not trying to be exact but this significantly increases costs.


This "answer" then begs more questions doesn't it.  Why would Prc
use Grant and Liberty to the West End loop at Stanwix and Fancourt?
Smithfield is much shorter isn't it.  The information provided by
Mr.Schneider suggests Tunnel operated the 23 // 25 lines from 1934
into the mid-1940s.  Why would the double-track turn from Tunnel to
W.Carson be built at the very end of Tunnel operation of the 23 and
most likely after it ended?

Is it possible the downtown loop for the 23/25 lines did change to
Smithfield, Grant, Liberty, Wood, Smithfield to W.Carson for a time?
This is very possible but would also cause public confusion.  This
route would greatly reduce overhead for operation from Tunnel
wouldn't it.  Mr.Dengler's picture 'hints' at this doesn't it; but any
car on the street is "in-service" unless disabled.  The one picture
of 3756 on the 23 at Grant and Liberty with passengers in 1944
is interesting.

It seems logical to assume Tunnel equipment needs increased with
the 23/25 lines.  Did this force other routes out of tunnel and where
would they go?


This guide lists the 12-line as operating to and from downtown.  It is
obvious Prc responds to demand.  Lower demand may see it reduced
to outer-end shuttle; if demand increases then it is run full-length.
The 21-line is defined with a North side loop as we know.

This booklet is 3"X5.5", 60-pgs, less than half about transit, the rest
about "medicine."


 
Phil


________________________________
 From: Dwight Long <dwightlong at verizon.net>
To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org 
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 11:57 PM
Subject: [PRCo] Re: Making sense of the PRC assignments....
 

Phil

I'll have to take your word for it.

So you are saying that the curves between the tunnel and West Carson were 
actually built some time in the PCC era?  Meaning anything going between the 
West End group and the rest of the system had to transit the Golden 
Triangle, prior to their installation?  This was before my time if it 
existed.  Sounds beastly inconvenient to me, especially if one wished to run 
cars on Rt. 23 out of Tunnel Car House.  But, it could be done, and other 
than the congestion factor in the Triangle, would still be a more favorable 
barn than Ingram to feed cars onto the line--but not for taking them off, in 
the afternoon, and the reverse in the morning.

Dwight

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Phillip Clark Campbell" <pcc_sr at yahoo.com>
To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org>
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 9:06 PM
Subject: [PRCo] Re: Making sense of the PRC assignments....


> Mr.Long,
> The 50-line was based at Craft. The first curve from tunnel to E.Carson
> is there; the 2nd curve wasn't built until the 2-curves from W.Carson
> were built.
>
> I am attaching a picture of 1201 again to this email. You shall NOT 
> receive
> the picture itself; the mail program provides a Url at the very bottom of
> this email. Click on it to see the picture.
>
> Please note total absence of tracks to and from W.Carson.
> Look at the car stop sign immediately above 1201. In the same span is
> the frog to turn to E.Carson. It is a little difficult to see the track 
> but it
> is
 there.
>
>
> Phil
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Dwight Long <dwightlong at verizon.net>
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 8:47 PM
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Making sense of the PRC assignments....
>
> Phil (sent from my portable computer)
>
> AIR, there were double curves between East Carson and the tunnel. However,
> I don't have my maps with me here so I can't verify that. But if not, how
> would cars coming off route on 50 get to the car house?
>
> I'll take another look at the map later, but I think you are right about 
> the
> lack of a straight through track on Carson. There would be no need
 for it.
> I think I made an error there--with respect to calling it a Grand Union.
>
> With respect to cars signed 23 on any part of the South Hills downtown
> loops, that fact is not dispositive. 23 may or may not have been rerouted
> to use one of the South Hills loops. I know nothing of this, but that does
> not mean it did not happen. In my day it always used the West End downtown
> loop. Assuming the base cars always did so, the cars to which you referred
> could just be feed on or feed off runs and not base trips.
>
> We would need access to route guides or old timetables from Way Back to 
> sort
> all this out. And it all assumes that the curves between the tunnel and
> West Carson are some latter day installation. In my day they were always
> there, and their use would be the logical way to feed cars based at Tunnel
> Car House on and off Rt.
 23.
>
> Dwight