[PRCo] Re: West Penn Railways Part 1

[Fred Schneider]

On Jun 27, 2012, at 1:21 PM, Dwight Long wrote:

>  
> Fred
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> At least some portions of Greensburg local service lasted until  January 1937.  It is my understanding that they did use 300 series cars there—perhaps other types as well.
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> Connellsville local service later was provided by an extension of the South Connellsville line through the terminal and up Crawford Street to the end of city track;  I’m not sure how long this lasted but think it may have been done until some time after WW II—probably tripper service only by then.
>  
> The last WP McKeesport local service came off in June 1938.  There are several pictures of 300 series cars, both in original deck roof and later arch roof configurations, working those lines in Beal’s book,  including a rather spectacular one of 304 coming down one steep hill and preparing to ascend another on Jenny Lind.  I walked that line back in 1952;  rails or bricks where track had been were still there to mark the route. I can attest that it was one hilly mother! Supposedly the reason single truck cars were used exclusively on Jenny Lind is that a sharp curve at Shaw and Jenny Lind so dictated. Some McKeesport track remained under West Penn ownership until about 1951 but was operated from before 1938 by PRC under lease from WP.  This was on PRC Route 68, which finally Crumped in September 1958, the last former WP track operated for passenger service.
>  
> Beal’s book also has a shot of 212 in very early days with old-style West Penn lettering.  It does not have arch bar trucks at that time. There is a shot of 299 with arch bar trucks.  His other shots of double truck cars in McKeesport are not clear enough to determine truck type, although there is a shot of what appears to be a 200 series car signed for McKeesport-Trafford (thus pre-1938) with non-arch bar trucks.

Was the picture of 212 in Beale's book first 212?  Remember, the earliest car was wrecked.  The arch bar trucks were under 204 which became third 212.   

Look down below … the picture shows 212 with the Brill trucks and 204 with the arch bar trucks.   Car 204 is in South Connellsville service sometime in the late 1930s when the Anchor glass plant was still under the Capstan glass name (see the bottom line of the destination sign).   When 830s, 294, 295 went on South Connellsville, 204 went into storage, not to come out until 1949-1950.   Why did it come out.   Until West Penn abandoned Brownsville, it still needed a car (wasn't the abandonment order Brownsville, then Martin, then Fairchance in March 1950?).   And 212's wheels were worn so damn thin they probably couldn't pull up the brakes even if they put new shoes on it.   So the solution would be to dust off 204, paint 212's number on it, and use it for a few Saturdays until they got rid of Brownsville had a couple of spare 700s.  
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> Two of the 300 series cars went to Wheeling Traction and were converted to standard gauge, renumbered from 310-11 to WTC 1 and 2.  Four of them went to Tarentum, Brackenridge and Butler Street Railway where they outlived the operation of the AVSR—319-22, renumbered to 101-4.
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> Air brakes were acceptable on the AVSR because it was mostly flat.  One problem with MU operation of cars with B 50 controllers as used on West Penn was that final stop was accomplished by hand brake;  this would not have been feasible in MU operation without a motorman in each car and even then it would have required a degree of coordination that would have been difficult to achieve.

It could have been done, Dwight.  Remember that West Penn also told the PUC it was impossible to put a deadman on those cars in 1937 and the PUC's response was do it or else.   The cut out that you see in the pilot on the 700s was done in the late 1930s to accommodate a pilot motor that ran the controller backward through all the steps including braking if the motorman let go of the deadman button.  I am not sure how they tied the hand brake into it.  At any rate, when it came down to "Do it or face retribution," they found a way to engineer it.  
>  
> I was the second to last person to operate 832 before it went into its almost 60 year “hibernation,”  and can attest to the tricky nature of those non-self-lapping air brakes.  They required a deft “whipping” movement of the brake handle to avoid an emergency application.  I was under the close guidance of John Baxter and managed to avoid that calamity, but it was definitely not an easy job for the novice! 

I remember the differences between some cars that Dave Garcia had me running at Orange Empire that had great variations in brake valves.  First there was a PE Hollywood that I think need a good cleaning of the gunk in the system but I would not have said that to Dave.   You put the car in apply.   Pulled the cigarette out of the pack.  Lit it.  Took a couple of puffs.   Then lapped the brake valves.   Then there was an old LATL type F car on which the time spent in apply was measured in milliseconds.   We all know that every car is different and that opposite ends of the same car can also be difference.

I suspect in a year or so I will finally get my chance to run 832.   I have the most fun, Dwight, running anything different that I have not tried before.  Because I have word most air valves, what I find most challenging are those rare opportunities I have to run manual dynamic brake cars.   Outside of National Capital, the only other place I have had that opportunity was back when I still had a membership at Crich, England.   I remember commenting about having run the London double decker they brought back to life from its previous career as a shed and how difficult the controller was to work (one of those tight bastards that moves best if you put a ten foot pipe extension on it) and one of their other people mouthed off that it was the only thing he didn't like about that beast.   I guess I must have done OK if that was my only complaint.











>  
> Dwight
>  
>  
> From: Fred Schneider
> Sent: Wednesday, 27 June, 2012 12:02
> To: Dwight Long
> 
> Cc: Kinsley Goodrich ; artwheeler at trolleybuses.net ; Frank Di Bugnara ; Jack May ; Lew Schneider ; C.K. Leveret
> t ; Dennis Lamont
> Subject: Re: West Penn Railways Part 1
> All of those 300s were built by St. Louis for the predecessor of the Allegheny Valley St. Ry.   I believe a small number may have stayed for a while in Tarentum but most wound up in McKeesport of in Connellsville or perhaps even Greensburg local service.   Greensburg local service was gone in the early 1930s.   Connellsville was gone except for the South Connellsville service very early but there is a postcard image that shows one of those 300s on Crawford Avenue in Connellsville rather early.  
>  
> The last use of the 300s was in McKeesport about 1937.  The Jenny Lind Street line may have been the last line where they were operated.     Unlike New York and North Jersey and Lancaster where we had trolley fans coming out our ears in the early 1930s, they were very sparse in that part of the country.   The only pictures we have of McKeesport are Dengler's roster pictures at the carbarn (heaven forbid that he should actually go out on the street).   I think he took three or four different 300s, and 298 or 299 (an old McKeesport and Irwin car).   But he took so many of each one and peddled the negatives that back in the early 1950s, when I got in this hobby, you could buy the same pictures from half a dozen people … Frank Butts, Dick Rumbolz, Steve Maguire, and Dengler himself come to mind.  
>  
> The air brakes disappeared as a result of a runaway in Connellsville very early.   But they never seemed to figure out how to work multiple-unit control without air brakes.   (Remember we had PCCs with it but the technology just wasn't there in the teens.)   So the freight motors on West Penn were all air brake cars.   The Valley Route cars were generally air-brake so so any 250s or 830s that came back to Connellsville had air.   I might add that I never ceased to be amazed that electrically those 830s were state of the art but the air system was a real dinosaur … manually lapped valves at a time when the industry was switching to self-lapping valves. 
> The 300s would have dynamic brakes … an early conversion from straight hand brakes … remember they were built in 1902 when single truck cars would have had hand brakes. 
>  
>  
> On Jun 27, 2012, at 10:51 AM, Dwight Long wrote:
> 
>>  
>> Kin
>>  
>> The CERA roster claims that car (305) had “West Penn trucks,”  whatever that meant. Other cars in the series had Peckham trucks, so maybe there was some swapping of running gear over the years.  CERA also shows the car built by SLCC in 1902.
>>  
>> Track brakes were a hallmark of West Penn cars, and most, but not all, their cars had them (without air brakes).  Their most modern cars, the 830 series CCC curved side cars, were an exception with air brakes and no track brakes.  As a result, once their initial assignment to the Allegheny Valley Street Railway expired (in 1937), they were relegated to secondary service on the Coke Region main lines of West Penn and only one was operational at the end.  That one, 832, is preserved at Arden and should be running soon, perhaps by next year.
>>  
>> Dwight
>>  
>> From: Kinsley Goodrich
>> Sent: Saturday, 23 June, 2012 14:32
>> To: artwheeler at trolleybuses.net ; Fred Schneider ; Frank Di Bugnara ; Jack May ; Lew Schneider ; Dwight Long ; C.K. Leverett ; Dennis Lamont
>> Subject: Re: West Penn Railways Part 1
>> That is a cute little 7 window car. That Peckham truck is a beauty! Looks like a track brake as well as wheel ones. That old style pole base is something else, also. Many nice old details. Was this a Jackson & Sharp car?
>>  
>> Kin G.
>>  
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Bill Volkmer
>> To: Fred Schneider ; Frank Di Bugnara ; Jack May ; Lew Schneider ; Dwight Long ; C.K. Leverett ; Dennis Lamont
>> Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 2:13 PM
>> Subject: West Penn Railways Part 1
>>  
>>  A little Artwheeler humor tossed in for good measure.
>>  
>> Gotta get your money's worth, right?
>>  
>> WDV
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>> <WP_collage 1 WDV.jpg>
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>> <WP_Timetable collage 07302937 WDV.jpg>
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>> <WP_305 captioned WDV.jpg><Last day on West Penn WDV.jpg>
>>  
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