[PRCo] Re: Question about 69 Squirrel Hill Route

Wed May 2 11:13:22 EDT 2012

Mr.Long,

Mr.Cefer addressed your question.  I am rewording my original post
to make it more clear:

There were nine cars with production B3s (as noted, 1613 & 1614
received the upgraded [experimmental] B3s [first tested under
1200s.])  These are the nine cars:

1615, 1616, 1617, 1618, 1619, 1645, 1646, 1647, 1648.
This leaves one set of air-equipped B3s as spares.

Car 1644 received the Clark B2A trucks.

All the production B3s for the 1600-series air-cars were
installed when they were converted for interurban service;
none of those cars operated [as interurbans] with B2s.

Additionally, as you indicated, car 1613 began interurban
service with heavier B2s didn't it.  "It seems" 1614 began
its interurban career May-1946 with a set of experimental
B3s.  Again, it would seem 1613 had received a set of
the experimental B3s by this time.  Apparently more
modifications were made and these two cars could
occasionally sport B2s for a short time.

Some time after service south of Simmons and Drake ceased,
cars 1613 and 1614 lost their B3 trucks.  One of a kind is
"4" in this case isn't it yet they were apparently different enough
to offer unique maintenance challenges.  Someone wrote
recently that car 1614 received [production] B3s from 1645
that was in the cornfield meet with 1261 in the early 1960s.

Car 1613 lost its interurban retriever by the mid-1950s; the
catcher above the rear windows was reinstalled.  Car 1614
retained its retriever until Prc replaced all retrievers with
catchers about 1960 or later.  Car 1613 rode hard on B2s
and was not liked for this and possibly other reasons.

About 1970 or later Pat removed the pilot from 1613,
replacing it with a lifeguard.  The roof mounted light was removed
as well.  Shop crews could still be those from Prc couldn't
they; it would be interesting to know the reasons behind
these changes.  Not much later Pat put roof lights on all
equipment, city and interurban--and 1613 when rebuilt.

One of the PCC books mentions 1630 received B3s after
1648 was lost in the 1955 fire.  This is very possible but
has not been confirmed.  This is as far from important as
one can be yet it is interesting trivia which would be nice
to know.

Phil

----- Original Message -----
From: Dwight Long <dwightlong at verizon.net>
To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
Cc: 
Sent: Tuesday, May 1, 2012 10:50 PM
Subject: [PRCo] Re: Question about 69 Squirrel Hill Route

Phil

OK, that makes sense because BOTH 1613 and 1614 were converted before the 
ten B-3s from SLCC arrived.

Are you saying that there were two other sets of B-3s that preceded the 
ten-set order?  From where did they come?  I had been under the impression 
that the trucks used under 1613 (and presumably 1614 as well) were modified 
B-2s, but I have no facts to support this supposition.  Any more information 
you might have on those would be appreciated.

Dwight

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Phillip Clark Campbell" <pcc_sr at yahoo.com>
To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 10:13 PM
Subject: [PRCo] Re: Question about 69 Squirrel Hill Route

> Mr.Long,
>
> There were nine cars with produuction B3s (as noted, 1613 & 1614 received 
> the
> upgraded B3s. These are the nine cars:
>
>
> 1615, 1616, 1617, 1618, 1619, 1645, 1646, 1647, 1648. This leaves one set 
> of
> air-equipped B3s as spares.
>
>
> Car 1644 received the Clark B2A trucks.
>
> All the production B3s for the 1600-series air-cars were installed when 
> they were
> converted for interurban service; none of those cars operated with B2s.
>
>
>
> Phil
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dwight Long <dwightlong at verizon.net>
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
> Cc:
> Sent: Tuesday, May 1, 2012 11:44 AM
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Question about 69 Squirrel Hill Route
>
> Phil
>
> I wrote my last note before seeing this one of yours. Question: what 
> trucks were used under the conversions which were made before the 
> ten-truck order was received from SLCC? Were more B-2s weighted for 
> temporary use until the B-3s arrived? The 1948 dates of the balance of the 
> conversions squares with the shipment of the ten-set order of B-3s from 
> SLCC late the previous year.
>
> Ultimately the “interurban 1600” fleet had ten cars with the 1947 B-3 
> trucks from SLCC plus 1613 with the original trial trucks from 1945.
>
> Dwight
>
> From: Phillip Clark Campbell
> Sent: Tuesday, 01 May, 2012 09:43
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Question about 69 Squirrel Hill Route
> I found 'somewhere,' Mr.Lybarger! I didn't need Gps; in fact, 'somewhere' 
> is
> stealth and hidden from Gps.
>
>
> Car 1613 was pulled from Craft in December 1945 for conversion; she 
> started
> service later January-1946 -- the 26th? I believe it was a Sunday.
>
>
> Car 1614 was converted May-20-1946. She was received Aug-13-1945 and
> apparently assigned in the East along with 1646 and a few others. Photos 
> of
> 1646 on the 87 before conversion are on the inet. Photos of 1619 as city 
> car
> are on route 94 yet 1613 was in Craft.
>
>
> Cars 1617 and 1644 were converted in Feb and May respectively of 1947. Of
> course we know -- some do -- that 1644 reverted to city car by May-1949 
> don't we.
>
> The balance of the cars were converted in 1948 so it is not as spread out 
> as I wrote
> is it. The cars were converted in this order from Jan-May of 1948: 1615, 
> 1616,
> 1618, 1619, 1646, 1647, 1648, 1645.
>
>
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Phillip Clark Campbell <pcc_sr at yahoo.com>
> To: "pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org" <pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org>
> Cc: Dwight Long <dwightlong at verizon.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 1, 2012 9:19 AM
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Question about 69 Squirrel Hill Route
>
> Mr.Lybarger;
>
> Car 1613 was the first converted for interurban service and started in 
> Jan-1946.
> Car 1614 followed Spring-1946. I have the dates 'somewhere' but 
> 'somewhere'
> is always difficult to locate. In retrospect conversions seem 'slow' 
> because it
> happened over a couple years for just a dozen cars.
>
> Here is another photo I found with the 1600 and 1609 both displaying 
> 69-Kennywood.
>
>
>
> Phil
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Edward H. Lybarger <trams2 at comcast.net>
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
> Cc:
> Sent: Tuesday, May 1, 2012 8:30 AM
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Question about 69 Squirrel Hill Route
>
> Looks like a Charlie Dengler photo. Somewhere we have data about when the
> cars were converted for interurban service. I want to say 1947-48 but 
> don't
> have a date off the top of my head. Of course, 1613 and 1614 were sent out
> to Washington beginning in 1946; the others followed after the experiment
> was deemed successful.
>
> Ed
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementix.org
> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementix.org] On Behalf Of 
> Phillip
> Clark Campbell
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 8:26 PM
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Question about 69 Squirrel Hill Route
>
> Mr.Lybarger;
>
> Here is a picture of 1614 on 69 at Kennywood loop before conversion to
> interurban. This is obviously the mid 1940s; I don't know how long this
> lasted.
> I fouund tthis photo in the list archives.
>
> http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/1614%2069%20OB%20Kennywo
> od%201945xxxx.jpg
>
>
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Edward H. Lybarger <trams2 at comcast.net>
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
> Cc:
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 3:17 PM
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Question about 69 Squirrel Hill Route
>
> Route 60 cars went to Kennywood at times. Not sure about 69.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementix.org
> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementix.org] On Behalf Of Barry,
> Matthew R
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 2:59 PM
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
> Subject: [PRCo] Question about 69 Squirrel Hill Route
>
> A few weeks back, there was a photo being offered on eBay of 58 Greenfield
> on Loretta Street between Murray and Greenfield Avenue, with a date of 
> June
> 1958.   The abandonment dates of routes 68 and 69 were in Sept. 1958. I
> noted in this photo, that the wiring that would've taken route 69 on its
> loop from Greenfield Avenue back to Murray Avenue, had been removed.   If
> the date of the photo was accurate, I wondered if in the latter years of
> service, route 69 cars travelled further, perhaps to Munhall Loop or to
> Kennywood Park.
> -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below --
> -- Type: image/jpeg
> -- Size: 47k (48135 bytes)
> -- URL : 
> http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/1600-1609-69-kennywood.jpg
>
> 