[PRCo] Transit Happenings (Not Necessarily PRCo)

Wed Jul 9 20:23:29 EDT 2014

There was more to it than that.   Someone called it commuter rail at the outset when he should have called it light rail and that caused the FRA to jump in.   The FTA has jurisdiction over some other similar operations like the River Line and the Escondido operation.    I've seen those same dates but I have great reservations because I do not believe in magic.

On Jul 9, 2014, at 8:07 PM, Dwight Long wrote:

> 
> Fred
> 
> I believe the reason Capital Transit's LRT line is under FRA is because AIR there is still some minimal freight business on the line (and beyond it to the line the Austin Steam Train uses).  it must be run under temporal separation, like the River Line in N.J., because I believe the cars are the same or similar model Stadtlers that do not meet FRA buff strength minimums.
> 
> In Houston, testing started on the East End line in March and was to last five months (don't ask me why so long!)  Presumably the line will be then ready to open? The testing does not appear to have gone to the outer end of the line, however, and coupled with your observation, perhaps only a part of it will open this year.
> 
> The Southeast line testing started in June.
> 
> So did the downtown line's.
> 
> All sources I have read still say all three will open this year.  We'll see.
> 
> Dwight
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Fred Schneider 
>  To: Western PA Trolley discussion 
>  Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 7:04 PM
>  Subject: Re: [PRCo] Transit Happenings (Not Necessarily PRCo)
> 
> 
> 
>  No, San Antone was not left out.   See where I said nine other systems are on the drawing board or under construction.  
> 
>  Some of those "diesel light rail lines" have been left off my list and are on another list that a friend does … the commuter rail list.   We understand that the words light rail and commuter rail are often in the eyes and minds of the beholder.   The Austin operation is essentially a rush hour commuter rail operation under FRA jurisdiction because someone opened the wrong mouth.  
> 
>  Houston?   You gotta be kidding.   The east line is no where being finished.   They still have a major bridge to build over a railroad that has not even been started yet.  When I looked at it March 9th, that bridge was not done and none of the wire downtown was up, stations were not done.   They are blaming the car builder, perhaps because it is easier to blame them than the local contractor who might just be politically connected??????
> 
>  The San Antonio story … this favors the rail line 
> 
>       http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/passenger/light-rail/san-antonio-rail-can-proceed-city-ok-or-no.html?channel=61
> 
>  Whodathunkit in Texas?   How many people from the northeastern states can visualize a state that has seen its population go from sagebush to urban since World War II?   It has gone from about 7 million in 1945 to 26.5 million today.   I have my memories of four months assigned to Fort Hood, Texas, in 1959 … back then there were about 9.5 million in the state.   I was called into the First Stud's office one day and told that he had heard I had been stretching class A pass limits … that I had been going to Chicago.  He reminded me that a Class A pass was valid only for 65 miles.   Hey, I never hitchhiked (also illegal) farther than 1470 miles in one weekend.   I figured I logged about 5,000 miles in four months … saw St. Louis, New Orleans, El Paso, Houston, Dallas (many times), Fort Worth, Waco, Austin San Antonio (yes, the freight motors at the Pearl Brewery).   But I also saw a lot of empty space …. miles and miles and miles of nothing.   Not this year but in 2012 I drove up from San Antonio to Austin, Fort Hood, Temple, Dallas … and was astonished to see that essentially all those cities had grown together …. one big city about 250 miles across.   
> 
>  Maybe somebody on this list was, like me, stationed at Fort Hood, Texas.  Let me share a great story.   In the early 1940s … during World War II … a young army officer … a ROTC-TOTSY officer … I think a looie then … was assigned to Fort Hood.   He had his wife and kid with him.   It was my uncle, my dad's sister, and my nephew.  They had to find an apartment in Belton, 20 miles away because there was no place in Killeen.   In 1940 the population of that little town next to the base was 1,268 people … yes… one thousand, two hundred, sixty-eight.   When I was there in 1959 it was about 23,000.   In 2012 it was hard to find the old main street next to the Santa Fe.   The shopping area was malls out along the main east-west highway.   Estimated population today?   135,000.   
> 
>  That's texass.  
> 
>  (The picture was taken in 2012 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  -------------- next part --------------
>  A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>  Name: DSC_0081.jpeg
>  Type: image/jpg
>  Size: 453557 bytes
>  Desc: not available
>  Url : http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20140709/78c2b46b/attachment.jpg 
>  -------------- next part --------------
> 
>  In 1959, I remember about 30 miles of open country between Dallas and Fort Worth.   Sometime in the last 20 years, before the suspect died, Ed Lybarger and I had dinner with Roy King, Jr.  who lived in Dallas.  He was telling us how, in the 1960s when he moved to 4815 Allencrest, he would occasionally run over and kill an occasional armadillo in his rural neighborhood at night.   Today the suburbs end about 20 miles farther north.   And he was telling us that night about driving home from Fort Worth the week before in the rush hour and taking several hours to go 35 miles.     
> 
>  So when the DART Red Line is extended to the airport on August 18th, it will be their equivalent of the Paoli Local except that it runs on city streets downtown instead of totally on private right-of-way.   The line will be about 50 miles long from DFW to downtown and then north to Plano … with 20 minute service.
> 
> 
>  On Jul 9, 2014, at 5:31 PM, Dwight Long wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Fred
>> 
>> The miraculous expansion of tramway networks in France has been slowed somewhat by election of conservative mayors in several cities who have axed plans for new lines.  But that does not detract from your thesis.  And the new mayor in Paris is very pro tram.
>> 
>> Back in the good ole USofA, when mentioning Texass you left out San Antonio, which has a plan and some money--but anti-streetcar advocates are trying to get the issue put onto the November ballot in hopes of killing it.  The "Streetcar Vote Coalition" is comprised primarily of suburbanites who want the allocated money spent on new roadway construction in their precincts.  We shall see what happens there.  There is also agitation for a tramway in Ft. Worth but it has not progressed beyond hopes and ideas at this time.  OTOH Austin has a LRT line, albeit DMU operated, and is looking to expand same.   Houston will open two more lines before the year is out.  Yeah, whodathunkit in Texass!
>> 
>> Dwight
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: Fred Schneider 
>> To: Western PA Trolley discussion 
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 5:05 PM
>> Subject: Re: [PRCo] Transit Happenings (Not Necessarily PRCo)
>> 
>> 
>> Additional comments follow this … original message was moved to the top for clarity.   Yes, Herb, I liked the Jerusalem pictures.   
>> 
>> On Jul 8, 2014, at 8:54 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Next, I was watching all the "happenings" in Jerusalem on CNN and noticed
>>> that one of the streets shown in the broadcast had tracks and overhead
>>> wire. Who would have guessed that Jerusalem had streetcars. Check out the
>>> photos attached. Also, who would have guessed that it snows there. I worked
>>> in Saudi Arabia, which is pretty much in the same area, and it was always
>>> hot.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Herb Brannon
>>> 
>>> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20140708/486f14ba/attachment.jpg 
>>> 
>>> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20140708/486f14ba/attachment-0001.jpg 
>> 
>>> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20140708/486f14ba/attachment-0002.jpg 
>> 
>>> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20140708/486f14ba/attachment-0003.jpg 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> And now what Fred has to broadcast.   :<)
>> 
>> Whoda thunk it?   The world is moving in places we cannot go because we might have to do it in all states at once and the politicians cannot do that.  For example, we cannot have high speed rail because we need it in California, Texas and the Northeast Corridor but the politicians cannot give out the federal money unless you can also give it to Idaho, Wyoming and North Dakota and they sure as the devil don't need high speed trains.   
>> 
>> Herb,   a lot of the rest of the world is using light rail today because it doesn't use oil.    Jerusalem has had that system for more two and half years.  
>> 
>>      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Light_Rail
>> 
>>      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91wWmvJ6kWg    
>> 
>>      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqys0ge339c
>> 
>> My favorite example of where the world is going today is France, which was one of the first nations to go modern and get rid of those noisy, old, ugly streetcars.   Most of their systems were gone by the end of the 1930s ,,, Paris included.   Only tiny operations remained in Lille and St. Etienne by the era when most of us began shooting pictures.   Today?   Why there are 26 systems in 25 cities in France,.   The population of France is about 64 million --- just about the same as California and Texas put together.   Can you imagine 25 cities in Texas and California with trolleys today?   We're not even close!    (We have them in Dallas, Houston, Sacramento, San Diego, San Jose, San Francisco, Los Angeles and the BART system in the East Bay and a funded proposal to bring cars back to El Paso.)
>> 
>> The first one is in Caens, in Normandy.  Is it a bus or a trolley?   Well, it is fixed guideway using a single rail.   So we have a pantograph and a rail return for power.   But the cars ride on rubber tires.   OK, Not our way of doing it but it works for them and it doesn't waste as much oil.   Because of rolling friction, the tires probably require more energy than steel wheels on steel rails.   On the other hand, it probably stops as fast as a bus if stupid fool walks out in front of it while texting.    Guys, I'm looking for the good and the bad, not just an argument that it doesn't look like something we worship.
>> 
>>      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiGrBzH9WTE
>> 
>> And here is a more conventional two rail operation in Nice down on the Cote du Azur (the Azure Coast)   Makes the sounds you want.   Fantastic artistic photography … one of the best videos I've seen of trams.   The chap who shot it deserves a pat on the back. Damed if it doesn't make me want to go there and dine on a bowl of Bouillabaisse.     (Only the French know how to make that fantastic fish stew.)   
>> 
>>      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQMHv_gYf-g
>> 
>> Italy had cars in Trieste, Turin, Genoa, Milan, Rome and Naples when I first visited that country in 1961.   Today?   Twelve cities.   Most of us might go to Florence (Firenze), Italy to look at the art musums.  I think I want to go back to see the new light rail cars.
>> 
>>      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKv8GSSrETY
>> 
>> The United Kingdom?   This was a lot like France.   In 1960, the time of my first visit, all that was left were a three lines in Glasgow, the downtown and promenade lines in Blackpool, Grimsby and Immingham, a little bit of Sheffield, and the Isle of Mann.  G&I and Sheffield disappeared before the army sent me home a year later and Glasgow was gone by 1962, leaving only the promenade line in Blackpool and the Isle of Mann.   Today?   Nine cities!
>> 
>> Tyne-Wear Metro started the revolution in Britain     
>> 
>>      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuI7Nmst0MM
>> 
>> Nottingham was next.   Three more lines are now on the drawing board.
>> 
>>      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd2wmx2Fk2o&list=PLMeK7Eqknvg5QmkS8uuqCmdLsMHFUzkZs
>> 
>> A test train in Edinburgh, Scotland last fall:
>> 
>>      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7inHmbJgZ1E
>> 
>> And the USA and Canada has gone from about 15 cities in the mid 1960s to 59 this summer when Tucson opens.  An e-mail landed on my computer this morning announcing that DART will open its line to Dallas-Fort Worth Airport on August 18th.   Nine other systems in the US and Canada are under construction or being designed.
>> 
>> But all is not perfect.    Two new operations have closed … Galveston closed allegedly because of a hurricane and Memphis allegedly because of fires.  I think that in both cases the management is attempting to find excuses to shut down tourist or heritage operations that were losing money hand over fist and it is much easier to blame the loses in Galveston, where it only hauled 100 riders a day, on a storm that really didn't damage the system.  In Memphis, if you are only moving 3300 riders a day on three lines, maybe two accidental fires that might have been motorman error can be blamed on old cars and the cost of new ones could just be too much.   
>> 
>> What is the latest complete line in the USA?   The GREEN LINE from Minneapolis to St. Paul which opened 
>> 
>>      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou7fH_IjhfE
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 8, 2014, at 8:54 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Next, I was watching all the "happenings" in Jerusalem on CNN and noticed
>>> that one of the streets shown in the broadcast had tracks and overhead
>>> wire. Who would have guessed that Jerusalem had streetcars. Check out the
>>> photos attached. Also, who would have guessed that it snows there. I worked
>>> in Saudi Arabia, which is pretty much in the same area, and it was always
>>> hot.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Herb Brannon
>>> 
>>> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20140708/486f14ba/attachment.jpg 
>>> 
>>> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20140708/486f14ba/attachment-0001.jpg 
>> 
>>> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20140708/486f14ba/attachment-0002.jpg 
>> 
>>> http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20140708/486f14ba/attachment-0003.jpg 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20140709/19923962/attachment.html 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
>> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
>> 
>> 
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20140709/fbc87b9a/attachment.html 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
>> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
> 
>  _______________________________________________
>  Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
>  Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
>  https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways
> 
> 
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: http://mailman.dementix.org/pipermail/pittsburgh-railways/attachments/20140709/9b7b3247/attachment.html 
> _______________________________________________
> Pittsburgh-railways mailing list
> Pittsburgh-railways at mailman.dementix.org
> https://mailman.dementix.org/mailman/listinfo/pittsburgh-railways