new book on "McKeesport Trolleys"

[Fred Schneider]

IHT versus West Penn ... West Penn had trackage rights over IHT from
Hahntown into Irwin at least until IHT abandoned (was that about 1931?).  I
wasn't aware that West Penn ever took over IHT but they might have bought
the tracks, poles, wires and rights-of-way north of Hahntown so they could
continue their service from McKeesport into Irwin for the remaining seven
years.  The true expert here is Ed Lybarger.  

I don't have a copy of the book yet.  Does he clarify the often wrongly told
story about Pittsburgh's route 68 being taken over from West Penn in 1902?
Actually WP operated joint service with Pittsburgh Railways into the 1920s
and WP continued to own and maintain the tracks and overhead used by PRC
route 68 until 1951 when they were finally able to unload them on the
Railways Company.  It would be nice to have the notes here at the office
with exact dates.   

-----Original Message-----
From: Derrick J Brashear [mailto:shadow at dementia.org]
Sent: Friday, December 31, 1999 3:22 AM
To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
Subject: Re: new book on "McKeesport Trolleys"


On Tue, 28 Dec 1999, Derrick J Brashear wrote:

> At any rate, it's a well done book. I have two slight desires
> (namely, his maps are a bit crude, and in a few places the text is vague
> and I'm sure if I asked he knows the real answer) but overall this book is
> well worth the money and if as he says future volumes follow me and my
> money will be there.

Here are some comments and nits. The nits I'll be passing on to the
author, hopefully in such a manner as not to irritate him (he did a good
job on this book, and I don't want to discourage him from doing more)

-the map on page 41 shows the stretch of the 56 line from the Buttermilk
Hollow stop up over the hill to where the tracks passed under what's now
Lebanon Church Rd., but note at the time it was Grandview Blvd. 

-Page 148 claims a connection on the West Penn McKeesport-Irwin line:
Connection at Hahntown for WEST PENN (fromerly the IRWIN-HERMINIE
TRACTION CO.) to Herminie, but the bit on IHT on page 198 makes no
mention of a West Penn takeover (and it's news to me)

-Note the old 13th St bridge in the back of the picture of the 15th St
bridge on p 191. The 13th St bridge is long gone and I remember when the
15th St bridge was demolished (with explosive charges dropping the span in
the river). To avoid walking through a somewhat bad part of McKeesport a
few times when walking to Versailles from the (current) McKeesport
Transportation Center I crossed the Jerome St. Bridge, walked River Road,
then recrossed on the long-closed 15th St. bridge, and it was an
interesting structure, but the streetcar tracks were long gone and no
traces existed in the deck.

-I think what's meant by the "PRR bridge at Irwin" on p 130 is the bridge
over Tinker's Run and the PRR branch in that valley at Hahntown, but I'm
not sure. There was a bridge over the same branch on the line to Trafford
out of "downtown" Irwin. It doesn't make sense for it to be the bridge in
Irwin proper (over to "West Irwin") but you'd figure he'd have called that
Hahntown and not Irwin. The PRR branch, incidentally, connected with a
line coming from Greensburg just west of Herminie, and those ran down to
the river down the creek from Lowber and down the Yough from West Newton
(connecting along the way with another branch from the south). A bit south
of where Tinker's Run and the PRR were crossed by the line from
McKeesport, the PRR ducked into a tunnel, and emerged over beside Clay
Pike before crossing it and following another creek valley; That tunnel
was apparently sealed after 1941.

-"Stoney Cut", shown on p. 112, can still easily be traced alongside
Walnut Street.

I'll send along more later. In the meantime, go get this book;-) (No, this
isn't a paid endorsement. I'm just interested to learn of all the great
plans, some realized, some not...)

-D