62 Trafford - repaving*Thanks, Bob!*also Philly question

[brathke at juno.com]

Nearly all of the 1-Spring Garden and 5-Spring Hill tracks from E. Ohio
St. to Spring Garden Ave. are still exposed, and as far as I know, the
Spring Hill rail from Spring Garden Ave. all the way to the loop on Rhine
St. is still under the asphalt.

In the parking lot just west of the Sheraton at Station Square, and near
Carson St., there's a small section of double track exposed in the
paving.  This looks like old street paving, not part of the long-gone
P&LE yard, so I've assumed it was trolley track.  I never measured the
gauge to confirm this, though.

And after, 77/54 was abandoned, the 16th Bridge was repaved in the late
60's.  The contractor went down to the bridge substructure and removed
the rail from the spans, but they left short (approximately 4') sections
of rail attached to the expansion joints on the bridge, probably because
they were too difficult to remove or removal might have affected the
integrity of the expansion joints.  Then they paved over these small
sections of rail, but a few years later traffic had worn down the asphalt
and the ends of the rail became exposed, causing a bump if your car's
tires hit them.  More recently, I believe the 16th St. Bridge was rebuilt
again, and this time the joint rail was removed. 

The 16th St. Bridge seems to have had major repairs every ten years. 
There was a major rebuilding in 1951 when  they replaced the rail.  I
remember the temporary switches that PRC installed at each end of the
bridge, and trolley service was maintained on only one track. I still
have some of the special transfers that were issued on routes 1,4 and
77/54 during the 1951 construction period.  Then, in 1960, the paving was
removed so that they could work on the bridge structure; two-way trolley
service was maintained during this project, however.  I went to college
with a guy who got a summer job on the 16th St. Bridge project; his job
was pushing wheelbarrows of material into areas of the bridge where the
construction trucks couldn't drive.

Bob 4/29

--------------------------------------------------------

On Sat, 29 Apr 2000 09:46:05 -0700 mrb190 <mrb190+ at pitt.edu> writes:
> When I was writing my post (listed below yours) I had an inkling I 
> may have gotten
> Millvale street names mixed.  I meant to say "North Ave." is what I 
> saw being scraped.
> Grant meets with North near Millvale Park & the Mellon bank, right?
> 
> Anyway, even though you didn't directly point this out to me, glad 
> you cleared up my
> confusion.
> 
> Yes, I forgot about the tracks still embedded in the old red-brick 
> paving near the end
> of Grant.   I walk across the 40th street bridge sometimes - I 
> occasionally come into
> Lawrenceville and hook up with my sister for a walk and we go as far 
> as the old
> Millvale loop from 44th street in Lawrenceville.  Long, but nice 
> walk.  And we do hike
> across the abandoned part of old East Ohio with the tracks still 
> evident.  Makes us
> kind of melancholy when passing through there.
> 
> Speaking of tracks still embedded -- in front of the old Post Office 
> Musuem on the
> North Side, there's a double-set of streetcar tracks in belgian 
> block.  I think this is
> also part of the original East Ohio at that point.   In the 70's 
> when taking the 54C
> bus to Allegheny Center Mall, I noted that originally only three 
> rails were still
> embedded.  At some point, someone decided that it'd be more 
> historical, I guess, if the
> fourth rail were put back in.
> 
> I imagine that all around the city, there are many points where old 
> tracks are revealed
> every now and then.  Most recent citing for me:  one rail leading 
> into the old 56
> McKeesport/65 Munhall p.r.w. right off Mifflin Road across from 
> Interboro Avenue.  I
> wonder just how much is left under the asphalt there.  Also, this 
> past winter, two
> turnouts were evident along Main Street in Munhall when salt wore 
> down the old asphalt.
> 
> Didn't Philadelphia recently (within last five years) end up 
> re-using old rails they
> uncovered somewhere in their city to do some re-routing of a certain 
> car line?
> 
> Matt
> Bob Schmidt wrote:
> 
> > Speaking of, and confirming, repaving:
> >
> > I moved to Millvale in the mid-50's about the time the Millvale 
> Carbarn
> > & Storage Yard at old East Ohio St. & Grant Ave. was leveled 
> making way
> > for the Rte.8/28 bypass construction.
> >
> > I too was rather surprised by the "covering over" of tracks from a 
> point
> > where the carbarn had stood....on out Grant and North Aves. to  
> the loop
> > at Bauerstown. Must've had something to do with rail demolition 
> funding
> > on PATs part.
> >
> > No doubt a deal was cut with the Mayor and Borough Council of 
> Millvale
> > where PAT would pay for the better part, (if not all), of the 1.5 
> mile
> > length of macademizing (Woops! ...that's "hardtopping" these 
> days), if
> > they could bury everything. Excavating paving bricks, track, and 
> ties,
> > would've added considerable cost for the new, budding Authority 
> "bean
> > counters."
> >
> > There remains a 60 ft. set of inbound/outbound track set in paving 
> stone
> > on a short section of the original old East Ohio St. that somehow 
> missed
> > the dozers blade. It's located in what is now a small parking lot 
> area
> > outside the West Penn Laco Store. All is adjacent to the bypass at 
> the
> > intersection of Grant Avenue and old East Ohio Street.
> >
> > In the early 50's before operations terminated, I watched M-701, 
> 283,
> > and Yard Crane 282 operating in the Millvale yard which was PRC's  
> rail
> > and ties storage facility. There, many a PCC was transferred off
> > railroad flatbed cars onto narrow gauge yard trackage which 
> eventually
> > sent them on down East Ohio Street to their various carhouse
> > assignments.
> >
> > Just a bit of recall.
> >
> > Bob S.
> >
> >   
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Subject: Re: 62 Trafford - repaving
> > Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 09:37:29 -0400
> > From: mrb190 <mrb190+ at pitt.edu>
> > Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> > To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> > References: 
> <Pine.LNX.3.96L.1000427212321.7469E-100000 at dyn03.trafford.dementia.org>
> >
> > No - not boring at all.
> >
> > I remember during the 70's, when Grant Street in Millvale was 
> being
> > being scraped to be re-asphalted, I was surprised to see the 
> tracks
> > fully in tact all the way from the side street where the cars 
> turned up
> > to Evergreen Street (they're still under the asphalt of that side
> > street, too) to the right angle bend at Millvale Park and Mellon 
> Bank.
> >
> > I never had the chance to see the Millvale or Etna cars in action
> > (routes were abandoned about 5-6 years before I was around), so 
> this was
> > surprising for me to see.  I figured that routes abandoned long 
> before
> > PAT took over were REALLY abandoned to the point of  full track
> > removal.  E.g., I grew up in Lawrenceville and knew how quickly 
> the city
> > ripped out the tracks on Butler Street once the 94 & 95 routes 
> were done
> > in.  It seemed like after PAT, a once over with asphalt was the 
> way to
> > go in a lot of cases.   E.g., not 100% sure, but I think a good 
> bit of
> > the tracks are still under the long stretches of Fifth and Forbes
> > Avenue.
> >
> > So anyway, your post WAS interesting.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> > Derrick J Brashear wrote:
> > >
> > > For what it's worth, one of the Russells (Russell-Standard or 
> Russell
> > > Industries, I think the former) has been repaving PA 130 between 
> the east
> > > edge of Wilmerding and the west end of the Trafford bridge 
> (which of
> > > course replaced the old viaduct the trolley tracks were on) 
> since the
> > > beginning of April. They first scraped the old asphalt, and then 
> put down
> > > a new coat. 2 places (at least) along this stretch the tracks of 
> the 62
> > > line ran in the street: through the middle of Pitcairn, and 
> coming off the
> > > Trafford bridge. In neither case were rails, or even something 
> looking
> > > like a patch from when railheads were torched off, revealed. 
> Doesn't
> > > surprise me at the Trafford bridge given that that stretch was 
> closed
> > > during bridge replacement around 1976, but given what I did see 
> in
> > > Pitcairn, including some cobblestones, I really expected to see 
> some rails
> > > or evidence of location thereof in the street.
> > >
> > > The "short" Trafford loop using Brinton, 4th and Viaduct Way can 
> be traced
> > > through pavement cracks on Viaduct and 4th, and there's a
> > > between-the-rails sewer grate on the corner of those.
> > >
> > > Probably pretty boring to most of you, but I figured I'd mention 
> it.
> > >
> > > -D
> 

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Never argue with an incompetent person.  He'll only drag 
you down to his level, and then beat you with experience.
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