West Penn "Orange"

Wed Sep 27 17:59:34 EDT 2000

Absolutely right Fred, but in peace time, it becomes more like an adult Scout group with great benifits, the side benifit is, it's already instilled the basics if there was an Emergency but, the most important thing is, it teaches them to think of other people, not just themselves, as for you being the Devil's advocate, you must be the Seth Bremson of this list! I also agree about the German youth, it's so easy to right off what happened as them being lead around by that lunatic but, if people knew what it was like when he cae to power, oh let's not go down that path again, I've got to go and drive a 1 to 1 scale streetcar and play with the autos and watch the self loading baggage.

Cheers
Greg
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Fred W. Schneider III 
  To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 11:54 PM
  Subject: Re: West Penn "Orange"

  WELCOME GREG.  You'll probably discover that I like to play devil's advocate, often with a smile on my lips as I'm pounding the keys ... to stimulate thought ... to bring some of us out of our cozy little corner into the big world ... to find the similarities and differences around the world ... even to appreciate how others do things (there is no reason why someone in Australia or Austria can't have a better way to do something). 
  And as to general conscription into the military ... it did teach men how to appreciate each other and to accept differences.  It was a great equalizer ... sort of like the baggage carousel at the airport.  I never loved the army but I'll be first to say that it was a lot better back when everyone had a more or less equal chance of being drafted.  You learned how to deal with all sorts of people, or have your bed short sheeted.  We may have had different abilities but we all had feelings and we learned to cope.   That was the good side.  The bad side is apparent everytime you walk through a military cemetery.  Many times I felt more sorrow for the Germans than for the Americans in World War II because they were forced to serve with blinders and because so many teenagers -- kids as young as 12 or 13 -- never had a chance to live beyond 1945. 

  Greg King wrote: 

    G'day Guys, 
    My name is Greg King and I've just signed on at the suggestion of Jim 
    Holland, I'm a Streetcar motorman in Melbourne and a model producer in O and 
    HO. I'm interested in all things traction but have a real big soft spot 
    (between the ears) for all things Penna, especially Pgh, Johnstown and 
    Philly, I been to Philly, driven 2168 on a charter and generally had a ball, 
    have spent so much time in San Fran, know it as well as I know Sydney (where 
    I started driving buses in 1971). I have a million questions, I have most of 
    what has been published on Pgh (whish someone like CERA would do a 
    definative book) but I believe there is a video on the subject, could 
    someone enlighten me please??? 

    As to Mr Schneider's comments re driving in Europe, having done many miles 
    there myself (and driven streetcars in Gothenburg Sweden) I completely 
    concur, I have also driven widely in the US and found that mostly you guys 
    are pretty good, Boston was another story though. Over here, Fred, you could 
    have been decribing what I put up with every, both driving my car and my 
    streetcar, the desease over there is well and alive here, it's all along 
    with road rage, everyone believes his/her car has righ of way over everyone 
    else and if you dare get in the way......... Unfortunately, it is deep 
    seated in society, the reference to Germans (by the way, I have German 
    ancestry) and their ability for self discaplin is absolutely correct, at 
    least until recently, conscription/draft was still prcaticed in most 
    European countries, this teaches self discipline and self respect and 
    respect for other people property. I'm sorry i have gone on to long on the 
    subject, it just hit a nerve. 

    If anyone is interested in things down this way, please feel free to ask, I 
    hope to learn a lot from you guys, by the way, SF Muni has no PCC's painted 
    in TTC colours, you have to go to the new operation in wisconsin. 

    Cheers for now 
    Greg 
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Fred W. Schneider III <fschnei at supernet.com> 
    To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org> 
    Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 8:32 PM 
    Subject: Re: West Penn "Orange" 

    > Hi Jim 
    > 
    > No, I'm not encouraging.  Sad thing is that Americans always hear the 
    wrong stories. 
    > They claim they've heard about the high speeds on the German Autobahnen. 
    They never 
    > seem to understand that the Germans and Swiss are some of the best 
    trained, most 
    > disciplined, self-regulated drivers around.  The Germans have a long 
    history of being 
    > regulated and obeying regulation.  A speed limit sign, a no left turn sign 
    ... they 
    > understand there is a reason for them and they obey.  Americans seem to 
    operate 
    > differently, on a philosophy that nothing wrong was done until they are 
    caught. Quite 
    > frankly, I never have bad experiences driving over there ... By now I 
    probably have 
    > 30,000 to 40,000 miles under my belt on European roads (including 
    left-side driving in 
    > England and Ireland).  And I enjoy driving over there because the drivers 
    are 
    > predictable.  I know what is going to happen.  I don't find my self amazed 
    at what 
    > some idiot did 5 feet in front of my bumper.   They all understand that 
    traffic moves 
    > better if you queue up instead of cutting in front of someone.  And by the 
    way, 
    > express highways can only handle so much traffic and the German Autobahnen 
    are now at 
    > that stage.  The average speed has dropped about 15 miles per hour in the 
    last ten 
    > years, there are a whole lot of additional speed zones which are obeyed, 
    and today the 
    > German government has dropped their recommended safe speed from 90 mph to 
    75 mph and 
    > probably only 5% of the drivers are now exceeding that recommendation. 
    By the way, 
    > Germany (and most if not all European) requires that drivers go to driving 
    schools to 
    > be trained.  Parents and friends don't do the training.  Everyone is 
    trained the same 
    > way.  The cost of getting the initial license varies with the student and 
    the country 
    > ... the range is between $1200 and $2000.  Personally I think you take it 
    a lot more 
    > seriously when shelling out that kind of money. 
    > 
    > Then I get home to watching assholes speed by me in the passing lane and 
    then dive 
    > across three lanes onto an exit ramp because they have an inalienable 
    right to be 
    > ahead of the other cars.  And damnit, you see it every day on your bus, 
    don't you? 
    > 
    > With age goes cynicism. 
    > 
    > Jim Holland wrote: 
    > 
    > > Greetings! 
    > > 
    > > Fred W. Schneider III wrote: 
    > > 
    > > > But it remains an 
    > > > American right to drive at high speeds even after we've proven that 
    fatalities 
    > > > increase.  Wars are a travesty.  Auto accidents are acceptable because 
    we choose 
    > > > to kill randomly. 
    > > 
    > >         Aren't we encouraging on our first day back!!::>>)))<Ultra-VBG> 
    > > 
    > >         Didn't see a postcard here - and in this day of instant 
    messaging, 
    > > wireless communications, etc!!::>>))<Another-Ultra-VBG> 
    > > 
    > > James B. Holland 
    > > 
    > >         Pittsburgh  Railways  Company  (PRCo),   1930  --  1950 
    > >     To e-mail privately, please click here: mailto:pghpcc at pacbell.net 
    > > N.M.R.A.  Life member #2190; http://www.mcs.net:80/~weyand/nmra/ 
    > 
    >

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