3750s etc.
Dietrich, Robert J.
bob.dietrich at unisys.com
Mon Jan 8 08:01:03 EST 2001
As part of my South Hills Junction site I started a list of PRCo cars --
http://www.voicenet.com/~shawncd/SHJ/carlist.htm. I'll admit updating this
list is not my favorite hobby related activity but I try to keep after it.
I'll add the info in this thread as time permits and try to watch for other
roster information as it comes through. Any constructive criticism of my
roster page and/or updates and corrections would be appreciated and added to
the list.
Thanks.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Phillips [mailto:tsquare at toad.net]
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 1:41 AM
To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
Subject: RE: 3750s etc.
Hi Jim:
You wrote below:
Car 3706 was simply destroyed by fire on 1932.03.18 -- the 18th
day
of the month seems to be a bad day for this series!
Speaking of coincidences, 3806 - struck by lightning late 40's and
never repaired, 3706 - desroyed by fire, 3606 - met an "evil demise" (per my
Dad but I don't recall what -- perhaps he was referring to 3706!)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
[mailto:owner-pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org]On Behalf Of Jim Holland
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 12:15 AM
To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
Subject: Re: 3750s etc.
Greetings!
Correction on 3702 -- NOT the first of this series to arrive --
actually 6th from last to arrive!! And 3702 may have been in an
accident with 3709 as it is listed as "DC DF 1943.01.18" which is the
same information as listed for 3702. It is translated:: "Destroyed in
Collision; Destroyed by Fire, Accidental, Date" If it is listed as "BU"
then it was intentionally burned for scrapping.
Car 3706 was simply destroyed by fire on 1932.03.18 -- the 18th
day
of the month seems to be a bad day for this series!
In the 3800 series all were simply burned for scrapping with the
earliest being 3807 on 1948.02.26 and followed by 3803 in 1949 and 3805,
3806, 3808 in 1951. All others 1952.
> Jim --
>
> Much thanks for this information -- there is alot here to digest
> Car 3702 which you list below must have been one of the two 3700's
> involved in a "cornfield meet" near Brookside Farms during 01/43 --
> no knowledge of the number or dispostion of the other car. (As a
> teenager, I remember this wreck -- the death of the operator of
> one of the cars was the only immediate casualty -- I don't know if
> there were others later. I understand that this accident was the
> result of signal operation hampered by sand causing insulation in
> the wheel/track circuitry -- perhaps Art Ellis, EHL, or FWS3 can
> share some knowledge on this event.)
>
> As you say, there are some inaccuracies in these rosters -- perhaps
> several weeks worth of research at PTM's library would be in order.
>
> The following is from Alan R. Lind's "From Horse Cars to Streamliners
> -- An Illustrated History of The St. Louis Car Company":
>
> Job # Order Date Cars Orig PRCo # Ship dates unknown
>
> 262 03/25/02 60 3001-3060
> 554A 05/19/05 100 3400-3499
> 748 04/19/07 50 3500-3549
> 762A 06/11/07 6 6000-6005 (Trailers)
> 996 05/05/13 50 4200-4249
> 1078 04/25/16 50 4350-4399
> do do 12 4400-4411 Nee BVTC 400-411
> 1079 04/25/16 75 A300-A374 (Trailers)
> 1149 03/30/17 50 A375-A424* (Trailers)
> 1301 02/06/23 75 4865-4939
> 1469 12/27/27 15 3800-3814
>
> * Confusion in numbering -- may have been renumbered into
> Bxxx and Cxxx series.
>
> PCC info excluded here.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> [mailto:owner-pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org]On Behalf Of Jim Holland
> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 1:42 PM
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> Subject: Re: 3750s etc.
>
> Greetings!
>
> > Tom Phillips wrote:
>
> > I was working from memory - I intended to say 3556 which, per
> > "Electric Railroads" (Number 20 - July 1952) dates this car to
> > 1915. This experiment must have been relatively successful as
> > 1) the 3700's followed just one year later and 2) the car was
> > in service at least through WWII. This source also states the
> > carbuilder to be Standard. Could this have been a rebuild of
> > a trailer or two? The other fact that is interesting is that
> > the car was only 7'9" wide,
>
> >> Jim wrote:
> >> 3556 is listed as 1910 which is the same as *one--source*
> >> indicates for the 3600s.
>
> > The date of 1910 OK for 3600's but I question 1910 for 3556 unless
> > the 1915 date which I cited above is a rebuild date. Would the
> > construction dates for the trailers offer any insight here? Also,
> > would the 3556 predate the powered trailers you referenced. I have
> > no dates. When were the 4200's built (I'm guessing 1912)?
>
> ROSTER---#3
> In addition to the Electric Railroads which you mention, I have
> 3(?)-other rosters. One is type-written and is complete as of
> 1944--only and the latest PCCs it lists are the 1400s. Here is a quote
> from the credits:: "Typed for ELECTRANSIT NEWS, District of Columbia
> Chapter, NRHS. Source material: Rosters by Henry J. Leinbach, Jr, and
> Charles J. Dengler, of Pittsburgh, PA." Charles Dengler is a founding
> member of the Museum.
> The above roster states a 1910 date for 3556 and also states it
was
> *built* by the *Company Shops.*
> For 3600--3619, no date is given.
>
> 01)--- Trailers A200--A249 built 1910
> 02)--- Trailers A250--A299 built 1912
> 03)--- Trailers A300--A424 built ????
> 04)--- Trailers A600--A624 built 1916
>
> 05)--- 4200--4249 -- 1910!!
> 06)--- 4250--4349 -- 1915!!
> 07)--- 4350--4399 -- 1917
> 08)--- 4400--4411 -- 1917
> 09)--- 4420--4423 -- 1910--1912. Ex-trailers built as power
> cars 1910--1912!
> 10)--- 4700--4799 -- 1917
>
> ROSTER---#2
>
> Another roster was printed in *THE TRANSFER TABLE* Winter of
1965.
> Quoted credits:: "This roster not possible w/o help of: Harry C.
> Bartley, Charles Dengler, Haenry Leinbach Jr, Charles Murphy, O.R.
> Cummings. Signed Harold Buckley Jr, 10--Aug--1963.
> 3556 -- built 1915 by PRCo.
> 3600--3619 built 1910 by Kuhlman
> Using the numbers above this roster lists building dates as:
>
> 01)--- 1910
> 02)--- 1912
> 03)--- 1917
> 04)--- 1912 - made from 3200s spliced
>
> Numbering system varies from above list:
> 05)--- 4200--4249 -- 1914
> 06)--- 4250--4299 -- 1914
> 07)--- 4300--4349 -- 1915
> 08)--- 4350--4399 -- 1916
> 09)--- 4400--4411 -- 1917
> 10)--- 4420--4423 -- 1912
>
> The above 2-rosters are on several sheets; the following roster is
on
> 85 pages so I tend to consult the ones above first!
>
> ROSTER---#1
>
> This roster lists *individual car numbers* for each group and
shows
> arrival date, in service date, and disposition date in addition to
> reason and type of disposition where at all possible. This MIGHT be
> original PRCo records, or something compiled from same. DO NOT know
> actual source.
> 3556 -- 10.29.1915, Standard Steel-Pressed Steel listed as
builder.
> It lists the length as 35-feet, 8-1/4 inches. That should probably be
> 55-feet. It was burned for scrap at Ingram on 01.28.1946, almost
> 55-years ago!
> 3600 herselve arrived on 04.17.1910 and was burned for scrap at
Castle
> Shannon on 09.15.1928. 3601 actually arrived on 01.23.1910 and was
> burned for scrap at West Park Car House on 10.30.1928. The latest
> delivery was July--1910.
> 3702 was the first of this series to arrive on 01.05.1918,
83--years
> ago! She was scrapped because she was damaged in a collision that
> possibly resulted in a fire, scrap date 01.18.1943.
> 4200 herself arrived on 04.03.1914, was loaned to Beaver Valley
> Traction Company on 12.01.1915 and was returned in May of 1917. She was
> converted to one man on 07.26.1933 and disposed of on 04.30.1953.
> St.-Louis Car is the builder. This is listed as Group-23, 4200--4249.
> Group--24: 4250--4299 Jan--Oct--1915
>
> The above group had the body design of the trailers.
> The following cars had slightly different body design.
>
> Group--25: 4300--4349 Mar--Dec--1915
> Group--26: 4350--4399 Jan--Nov--1917
> Group--27: 4400--4411 -- Purchased second--hand from Beaver
Valley
> Traction and they arrived in Pgh Jan--Mar--1923; building date is
> probably 1915--1916. These **MAY** have similar body style to
> trailers, 4200--4250.
>
> Group--28:
> 4420 built 01.23.1911 as trailer A217
> 4421 built 03.10.1911 as trailer A242
> 4422 built 11.28.1913 as trailer A283
> 4423 built 12.03.1913 as trailer A284
> Notes say all the above were converted to Motors on 05.18.1928!!
But I
> have an article showing conversion in 1914!!. All these cars were
> disposed of in March and April of 1932.
>
> Group--29: 4700--4799 Aug-1916--Oct-1917.
>
> James B. Holland
>
> Pittsburgh Railways Company (PRCo), 1930 -- 1950
> To e-mail privately, please click here: mailto:pghpcc at pacbell.net
> N.M.R.A. Life member #2190; http://www.mcs.net:80/~weyand/nmra/
James B. Holland
Pittsburgh Railways Company (PRCo), 1930 -- 1950
To e-mail privately, please click here: mailto:pghpcc at pacbell.net
N.M.R.A. Life member #2190; http://www.mcs.net:80/~weyand/nmra/
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