[PRCo] Re: West Penn Cars at PTM

[Fred W. Schneider III]

No, and why should they be any different.  For one thing, we are all
competing for limited free time.  We gave up 60 to 80 hour work weeks
between 1920 and 1950.  And now the spouse must also work to pay the
taxes.  We're right back to 60-80 hour workweeks, except that we've
split it among two family members and the trade off is that the dishes,
cooking, housecleaning, errands, and so forth are also split among two
family members.  

And, John, I know I went off in a different direction than you were
thinking about ... partly deliberately.  

John Swindler wrote:
> 
> >Edward G Skuchas commented:
> >
> >And then all of the museums must develop and educate the next wave of
> >volunteers who will have to take over for the current group.  And that new
> >group did not live with the trolley cars as some of the older members have.
> >
> >
> 
> Interesting comment.  Couple years ago attended a northeast region ARM
> meeting at National Capital in which the theme was education programs.  But
> what I remember most was one speaker commenting that trolley museums were
> started as clubs, and far too many still have a club mentality when dealing
> with the public.  Sort of 'it's our club, and visitors are tolerated, but
> not welcome'.  The speaker also mentioned that the club mentality creates
> barriers to reaching out to the public, with the result that the museum is
> stuck with a declining, aging membership.
> 
> Then about a month later attended a northeast region church conference in
> which the theme was reaching out to the public.  As one speaker commented,
> in too many churches fellowship ends at the coffee table rather then
> reaching out into the community, with the result that many  churches are
> stuck with a declining, aging membership.
> 
> Besides church membership, the speaker mentioned the VFW, Masons, Lions and
> American Legion as also suffering the effects of declining membership.  As a
> side note, it wasn't that many years ago that, in too many instances, Viet
> era veterans were not really welcome in VFW posts.  They were 'clubs' for
> the WWII vets.  But a recent Lancaster newspaper article mentioned that the
> VFW has gone through a series of consolidations and closures in an attempt
> to at least partially survive.
> 
> Is the railway museum field any different????
> 
> John
> 
> Edward G. Skuchas, PE
> >Parsons Energy & Chemical Group
> >edward.g.skuchas at parsons.com <mailto:edward.g.skuchas at parsons.com>
> >The Berkshire Car Shop
> >eskuchas at home.com <mailto:eskuchas at home.com>
> >Importer of St. Petersburg Tram Collection models.
> >The trolley modelers source for all manufacturer's parts, kits, cars,
> >videos, books.
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: John Swindler
> >Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 10:11 AM
> >To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >Subject: [PRCo] Re: West Penn Cars at PTM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >Greg King replied:
> > >
> > >
> > >Hi John,
> > >
> > >I'll send it next pay day, you know we Motormen are so well paid down
> > >here!!!!
> > >
> > >However, point taken, at least it's saved and who knows, maybe someday
> > >someone will have the money.
> > >
> > >Greg
> >
> >
> >Gosh, Greg, I'm still trying to catch up with the pay scale for janitors on
> >BARTD. (they are up in the high 20s/hr - and that doesn't include
> >overtime.)
> >   And didn't the New York MTA have some employees making close to $100,000
> >a
> >year a while back??
> >
> >As for my comments, guess I'm trying to ask: what would be the cost to
> >recreate the necessary hardware to bring a 'chicken coop' back to life????
> >I've heard figures of around $100,000 for just 27G truck frames from the
> >Edmonton trolley museum group.  (And in Los Angeles, a couple PE 950s are
> >coming in around $800,000 plus.)  Then there are motors, controllers, brake
> >system, and the time, effort and skills necessary to install this
> >equipment.
> >   Because even if the hardware were available, who would do the work???
> >
> >By comparison, what is the level of metal working skills and carpenter
> >skills needed to bring a 'chicken coop' back to a "stuffed and mounted"
> >display state??  I suspect considerably less then restoration to operating
> >condition.  Maybe 2,3 or even 5-1 ratio.  That is, since resources are
> >limited, would it be possible to "stuff and mount" five cars for the same
> >cost and resources as restoring one to operating condition???
> >
> >PTM suffers the fate of far too many other trolley museums in that the
> >public is exposed to a junk collection.  One piece of junk is ok, as an
> >example of 'before'.  Two pieces of junk is inexcusable.  Visit other
> >museums outside the railfan area.  How you judge those museums is how the
> >public judges us.
> >
> >Therefore, as but just one PTM member's opinion, my vote would be to
> >prioritize use of available restoration resources to get rid of the
> >'chicken
> >coop' collection in the passing siding area first (through either "stuffing
> >and mounting", de-accession, or hide elsewhere), before even thinking of
> >directing resources towards any long term restoration. Of course, if
> >someone
> >wants to write out a check............
> >
> >Again, just one distant member's unpopular opinion.
> >
> >John
> >
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > > Thank you, Greg, for your generous offer of $1.2 million (US) to
> >rebuild
> > > > West Penn 739 as an operating car.  When can Ed expect your check??
> > > >
> > > > Sorry about the sarcasm, which will continue, but why would anyone
> >want
> > >to
> > > > rebuild West Penn 739 - or several other cars - as operating pieces of
> > > > equipment??  Because anything that is operated is a liability.  It
> > >suffers
> > > > continual wear and tear.
> > > >
> > > > How many operating cars are required for a demonstration electric
> > >railway???
> > > >
> > > > At one extreme are the advocates of trying to restore everything to
> > > > operating condition.
> > > >
> > > > At the other extreme is a position that everything at a trolley museum
> > >could
> > > > be "stuffed and mounted" exhibits, such as the B&O Museum, for
> >instance,
> > >and
> > > > then buy some Gomaco products to provide the demonstration electric
> > >railway.
> > > >   I use that last term because PTM is claiming to be a non-profit
> > > > educational organization, and not a club.
> > > >
> > > > A compromise in between may be the best use of available resources and
> > >allow
> > > > for the elimination of the greatest number of 'chicken coops' from a
> > > > property.
> > > >
> > > > Just a biased opinion.
> > > >
> > > > John
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> 
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