[PRCo] Re: West Penn Cars at PTM

[Fred W. Schneider III]

Are you saying you agree, or that you want ten percent of my insurance
when I get shot? 

John F Bromley wrote:
> 
> Hey Fred,
> 
> Can I be your agent?  I'll only charge 10%!
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Fred W. Schneider III" <fschnei at supernet.com>
> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 2:52 PM
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: West Penn Cars at PTM
> 
> >
> > Ed:
> >
> > Glad to hear that Seashore is trying to get a grip on it.  The fear of
> > bankruptcy does have the ability to wake up some people.
> >
> > Some of the things they probably still need to learn (and so do most
> > museums) is that their crews should be straight out of central casting.
> > They should understand how to run a car but they also need to be actors
> > right out of 1920, or 1930, or 1900, whatever.  They also need to
> > understand that the public doesn't want to know that this car has 4 101B
> > motors and K35 control and straight air valves and a DH16 compressor and
> > that it was built in 1915, and that it ran on property A until 1922,
> > then on property B, and then that we bought it in 1951 ... are you
> > throughly bored yet?  If not we can keep trying.
> >
> > I'm suggesting that we be capable of recreating 1900 or 1920, and how
> > people lived, and why they used the trolley, and why they went shopping
> > for perishable groceries at the corner store every day (because
> > refrigerators were a 1930s thing), why you rode the trolley to work
> > instead of your horse (old Dobbin didn't like standing in the sun for
> > twelve hours like your car does) and why twelve hours (because it was
> > simply accepted that people worked 60 to 80 hours a week).  And that
> > they used the trolley to go to the cemetery on Sunday afternoon to lay
> > flowers on Aunt Matilda's grave because that is just the thing you did
> > on Sunday.  And I'm suggesting that, if needed, we even have people with
> > props on the car ... the lady with flowers who gets off at the grave
> > yard and the woman with a live chicken for dinner (caged of course), and
> > the kid who gets on the car to peddle newspapers.
> >
> > Or am I not making sense?
> >
> >
> >
> > Edward G Skuchas wrote:
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > I am also a member at Seashore.  They evidently had a meeting of trolley
> museum reps to discuss the future.  I believe that they had a professional
> museum type there who led discussions about what people expect to see at a
> museum and what museums should do to attract and keep visitors.  The result
> is what I think of when some people are having guests at their house.  The
> place is cleaned, dirty laundry is cleaned up off the kid's room floor, toys
> are put away, the best china is put on the table.  You want to impress
> someone.  So Seashore finally put in the loop at the end of the line and put
> in a little park.  The nicest cars run.  The operators talk nicely and have
> good manners.  The cars are put in storage barns.  Only display barns are
> open.  The rare trucks are pulled out of the mud and weeds and put in a
> warehouse or storage container.  The weeds are cleaned up, lawn mowed and
> flowers planted.  Nice bathrooms, reasonable food.
> > > What we see when we look at our rare West Penn shells and other items is
> not what the paying customer's see.  I think Arden has a great plan with the
> display barn and museum and the longer ride.  As with any museum or
> business, you don't make the money with just one visit, you want repeat
> customers and their influence to others to come.
> > > And then all of the museums must develop and educate the next wave of
> volunteers who will have to take over for the current group.  And that new
> group did not live with the trolley cars as some of the older members have.
> > >
> > > Edward G. Skuchas, PE
> > > Parsons Energy & Chemical Group
> > > edward.g.skuchas at parsons.com <mailto:edward.g.skuchas at parsons.com>
> > > The Berkshire Car Shop
> > > eskuchas at home.com <mailto:eskuchas at home.com>
> > > Importer of St. Petersburg Tram Collection models.
> > > The trolley modelers source for all manufacturer's parts, kits, cars,
> videos, books.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: John Swindler
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 10:11 AM
> > > To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> > > Subject: [PRCo] Re: West Penn Cars at PTM
> > >
> > > >Greg King replied:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Hi John,
> > > >
> > > >I'll send it next pay day, you know we Motormen are so well paid down
> > > >here!!!!
> > > >
> > > >However, point taken, at least it's saved and who knows, maybe someday
> > > >someone will have the money.
> > > >
> > > >Greg
> > >
> > > Gosh, Greg, I'm still trying to catch up with the pay scale for janitors
> on
> > > BARTD. (they are up in the high 20s/hr - and that doesn't include
> overtime.)
> > >   And didn't the New York MTA have some employees making close to
> $100,000 a
> > > year a while back??
> > >
> > > As for my comments, guess I'm trying to ask: what would be the cost to
> > > recreate the necessary hardware to bring a 'chicken coop' back to
> life????
> > > I've heard figures of around $100,000 for just 27G truck frames from the
> > > Edmonton trolley museum group.  (And in Los Angeles, a couple PE 950s
> are
> > > coming in around $800,000 plus.)  Then there are motors, controllers,
> brake
> > > system, and the time, effort and skills necessary to install this
> equipment.
> > >   Because even if the hardware were available, who would do the work???
> > >
> > > By comparison, what is the level of metal working skills and carpenter
> > > skills needed to bring a 'chicken coop' back to a "stuffed and mounted"
> > > display state??  I suspect considerably less then restoration to
> operating
> > > condition.  Maybe 2,3 or even 5-1 ratio.  That is, since resources are
> > > limited, would it be possible to "stuff and mount" five cars for the
> same
> > > cost and resources as restoring one to operating condition???
> > >
> > > PTM suffers the fate of far too many other trolley museums in that the
> > > public is exposed to a junk collection.  One piece of junk is ok, as an
> > > example of 'before'.  Two pieces of junk is inexcusable.  Visit other
> > > museums outside the railfan area.  How you judge those museums is how
> the
> > > public judges us.
> > >
> > > Therefore, as but just one PTM member's opinion, my vote would be to
> > > prioritize use of available restoration resources to get rid of the
> 'chicken
> > > coop' collection in the passing siding area first (through either
> "stuffing
> > > and mounting", de-accession, or hide elsewhere), before even thinking of
> > > directing resources towards any long term restoration. Of course, if
> someone
> > > wants to write out a check............
> > >
> > > Again, just one distant member's unpopular opinion.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you, Greg, for your generous offer of $1.2 million (US) to
> rebuild
> > > > > West Penn 739 as an operating car.  When can Ed expect your check??
> > > > >
> > > > > Sorry about the sarcasm, which will continue, but why would anyone
> want
> > > >to
> > > > > rebuild West Penn 739 - or several other cars - as operating pieces
> of
> > > > > equipment??  Because anything that is operated is a liability.  It
> > > >suffers
> > > > > continual wear and tear.
> > > > >
> > > > > How many operating cars are required for a demonstration electric
> > > >railway???
> > > > >
> > > > > At one extreme are the advocates of trying to restore everything to
> > > > > operating condition.
> > > > >
> > > > > At the other extreme is a position that everything at a trolley
> museum
> > > >could
> > > > > be "stuffed and mounted" exhibits, such as the B&O Museum, for
> instance,
> > > >and
> > > > > then buy some Gomaco products to provide the demonstration electric
> > > >railway.
> > > > >   I use that last term because PTM is claiming to be a non-profit
> > > > > educational organization, and not a club.
> > > > >
> > > > > A compromise in between may be the best use of available resources
> and
> > > >allow
> > > > > for the elimination of the greatest number of 'chicken coops' from a
> > > > > property.
> > > > >
> > > > > Just a biased opinion.
> > > > >
> > > > > John
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
> >