[PRCo] Re: West Penn Cars at PTM

[Jim Holland]

Good Morning!!

>> Jim Holland commented:

>>       Welcome back, John   ---   guess you were away   ---   didn't see any
>> posts for about a week.

> John Swindler wrote:

> Thanks, Jim.  Do you want to hear about our mini-vacation in Williamsburg??

	SURE!

> .......Those interested in trying to save some cars provided the
> nucleus of PTM's rolling stock.  The more rational ones (hmmm. think about
> it) were interested in fantrips and provided photos and paper documents that
> Ed deals with in the PTM archives.  Fortunately for those of us with a
> fondness for Pittsburgh, both existed locally.

	This is where we want to be careful, Yes?(:->)

	Interesting you mention the archives.   This is the area of PTM that intrigues me most  
---   this will outlast any equipment now on hand and provides a far better  *picture* 
historically of PRCo than any other part or combination of parts of the museum.
	Realistically, I see myself making only one more trip back to the Pgh. area.   That trip
was actually planned for 1998 but was cancelled.   I suspect it will be rescheduled within
3--5--years.   Thus, for me, donating to the equipment end of PTM is fruitless in light of
a mutual benefit   ---   'twon't personally get an opportunity to ride this equipment.  
But donating and designating to the Archive Division of PTM makes much more sense   ---  
this information will probably exist for hundreds or more years beyond the life of the
vehicles!
	Fortunately, I grew up in Dormont at the end of the PRCo era and have Vivid Memories of
operations thru Charleroi, Finleyville, Canonsburg, Washington, South Hills, East End, and
North Side in addition to West End   ---   low-floor, interurban, PCCs, work cars, track
work, stringing overhead.   Books, photos, and histories keep these memories alive!

> I would rather tend to imagine that after the first three cars were moved to
> Arden, had been boarded up, and they were waiting for the 4300 to take the
> group back to Pgh, some of the PERC members might have looked at each other
> and wondered: "Gosh, what do we do now!!"

	Think it was 4393 without checking   ---   too bad it wasn't 4398   ---   or that PTM
didn't acquire 4393!!!
	YES   ---   often think of what the mood must have been like and what went thru the minds
of those present.  It would be quite an eerie feeling on a cold winter day of
07--February--1954!

>>       And quite honestly, as a Railfan, I feel pushed out of the picture at
>> museums and get the impressions that railfans are unwanted.

> Railfans are wanted.  It's arrogant railfans that are not wanted.  No, let
> me take that back.  It's the railfans that take it too seriously that are
> not wanted (and where do you draw the line).

	Yes   ---   and there seems to be many within the museums who may be assessed as 
*off--the--deep--end*   ---   Definitely Not just those who visit.   My description of RVJ
and  *playing--streetcar*  is something that is a real turn-off to me personally!   YES, I
know that RVJ has much more operating trackage now, but at typical museums you shuttle
back and forth on 1,000--feet of track trying to emulate operations over a 26,000--foot
trolleycar line!   It is quite ridiculous!   Haven't been to RVJ for about 5--years, maybe
more, and usually just go to look at the bookstore where a good orderly collection of
books exists   ---   archival interest again.
	But again, I want to caution Myself, these people are trying to relive an aspect of the
trolleycar scene that intrigues them and they are certainly free so to do.   It is a
turn-off to me, so I stay away, but it is not wrong by any standard.
	What is assessed as  *off--the--deep--end*  is usually something beyond one's personal
interests.   A dictionary of such does not exist to my knowledge.

	Conversely, it is Not Wrong to talk technical aspects of trolleycars   ---   and talking
technical aspects of trolleycars  DOES  NOT  classify someone as arrogant.   Certain
groups of people might not be interested in technical aspects (Accountants(:->),
photographers, J.Q.Public), but it is Most Definitely an aspect of trolleycar museums.
	Again, without TrolleyCar Equipment a trolleycar museum does not exist and it is
necessary to keep trolleycar equipment operating so a knowledge of the technical side is
important.   Otherwise, Bernie Orient, Bruce Wells, Scott Davis, and Many Others are being
painted as real loonies, and that is anyhthing but the case.
	What we see is that there are many aspects to the trolleycar museum, that human Time and
Interest is limited in scope and personal gifts will not span all those gifts necessary at
museums, and that each individual needs to find his gift, develop it and use it, and
accept those with gifts different than his own.   It takes variety and spice and
acceptance to make a good cohesive museum.

	Arrogance is a trait  *common*  to inhumanity   ---   definitely not an exclusive to
Railfans.   It is recognized as inappropriate to turn the conversation technical in the
presence of J.Q.Public, but a museum is a repository of technical info and one would hope
a railfan could access this information.

	Again,  $$,$$$.$$  talk and it is J.Q.Public and grants that bring in the bucks so this
is where the focus of the museums lie   ---   thus pushing those with technical inquiries
away, RailFan or Not!

	I don't like the docent experience at trolleycar museums   ---   I don't  *need*  it  
---   I was there on trolleycars when they  *Really*  operated.   I have definitely taken
Ed's and Dennis' comments under advisement and recognize that PTM puts a great deal of
effort into training docents and PTM is definitely outstanding in this field (as PTM is in
many areas!(:->)),  but when I ride the trolleycar, I just want to experience it.   A
docent at San Jose's Winchester Mystery House is greatly appreciated because I 
*need--to--know*  the background and history to enjoy the experience, but I don't need
that with trolleycars   ---   I would rather read to gain trolleycar information than to
hear a speech.

> ...My wife also had a co-worker who had an annual pass for a renaissance
> fair, and dressed accordingly.  Went every weekend.  The word 'bizarre' was
> often used to describe this co-worker. (who was perhaps actually trying to
> escape a somewhat dysfunctional home life - a long sordid story)

	Like you say, there is more to this story.   But consider Fort Edmonton where all the
volunteers dress the early 1900s.   They might do this every weekend as well.   A hobby
and not necessarily  *off--the--deep--end*  in and of itself.
	Again, what one assess as  *off--the--deep--end*  is something outside personal
preferences.   Remember, those interested in any aspect of trolleycars have generally been
belittled and according to J.Q.Public,  ALL  trolleycar enthusiasts are 
*off--the--deep--end.*

> Again, just a distant members viewpoint

	.......And even more distant here!

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James B. Holland

Holland  Electric  Railway  Operation
    "O"--Scale  St.-Petersburg Trams Company Trolleycars  &
        "O"--Scale  Parts  mailto:pghpcc at pacbell.net
        Pennsylvania Trolley Museum (PTM) http://www.pa-trolley.org/
    Pittsburgh  Railways  Company  (PRCo),   1930  --  1950
N.M.R.A.  Life member #2190; http://www.nmra.org

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