[PRCo] Re: West Penn Cars at PTM

[Greg King]

Hi Jim,

Just another point from my perspective (by the way, what on earth is a
docent, never heard of it before) on RVJ. They actually have the nucleus for
a fine interurban museum (like East Troy), the line is an original
Interurban line that, less overhead) has always remained in place. The
former entrance to the museum (they now have a new visitors centre) is a
former gas station and there is a nice little park there for visitors to
relax in. How difficult would it be, to turn the track in that area into a
roadway, with the small interurban station opposite the gas station which
would be restored to that, a few period cars and/or a bus on the street that
could be encouraged to be stored at the site perhaps. The line could be in
street from where it starts to come around the corner to around and
including the straight. It would'nt happen overnight and could start with
just having the road way made of dirt. That small peace of street and small
town inturban station envionment would change the whole environment there.

>From another distant fan, (you could'nt get much more distant than me unless
I moved to Antarctica!)
Greg
>
> >> Jim Holland commented:
>
> >>       Welcome back, John   ---   guess you were away   ---   didn't see
any
> >> posts for about a week.
>
> > John Swindler wrote:
>
> > Thanks, Jim.  Do you want to hear about our mini-vacation in
Williamsburg??
>
> SURE!
>
> > .......Those interested in trying to save some cars provided the
> > nucleus of PTM's rolling stock.  The more rational ones (hmmm. think
about
> > it) were interested in fantrips and provided photos and paper documents
that
> > Ed deals with in the PTM archives.  Fortunately for those of us with a
> > fondness for Pittsburgh, both existed locally.
>
> This is where we want to be careful, Yes?(:->)
>
> Interesting you mention the archives.   This is the area of PTM that
intrigues me most
> ---   this will outlast any equipment now on hand and provides a far
better  *picture*
> historically of PRCo than any other part or combination of parts of the
museum.
> Realistically, I see myself making only one more trip back to the Pgh.
area.   That trip
> was actually planned for 1998 but was cancelled.   I suspect it will be
rescheduled within
> 3--5--years.   Thus, for me, donating to the equipment end of PTM is
fruitless in light of
> a mutual benefit   ---   'twon't personally get an opportunity to ride
this equipment.
> But donating and designating to the Archive Division of PTM makes much
more sense   ---
> this information will probably exist for hundreds or more years beyond the
life of the
> vehicles!
> Fortunately, I grew up in Dormont at the end of the PRCo era and have
Vivid Memories of
> operations thru Charleroi, Finleyville, Canonsburg, Washington, South
Hills, East End, and
> North Side in addition to West End   ---   low-floor, interurban, PCCs,
work cars, track
> work, stringing overhead.   Books, photos, and histories keep these
memories alive!
>
> > I would rather tend to imagine that after the first three cars were
moved to
> > Arden, had been boarded up, and they were waiting for the 4300 to take
the
> > group back to Pgh, some of the PERC members might have looked at each
other
> > and wondered: "Gosh, what do we do now!!"
>
> Think it was 4393 without checking   ---   too bad it wasn't 4398   ---
or that PTM
> didn't acquire 4393!!!
> YES   ---   often think of what the mood must have been like and what went
thru the minds
> of those present.  It would be quite an eerie feeling on a cold winter day
of
> 07--February--1954!
>
> >>       And quite honestly, as a Railfan, I feel pushed out of the
picture at
> >> museums and get the impressions that railfans are unwanted.
>
> > Railfans are wanted.  It's arrogant railfans that are not wanted.  No,
let
> > me take that back.  It's the railfans that take it too seriously that
are
> > not wanted (and where do you draw the line).
>
> Yes   ---   and there seems to be many within the museums who may be
assessed as
> *off--the--deep--end*   ---   Definitely Not just those who visit.   My
description of RVJ
> and  *playing--streetcar*  is something that is a real turn-off to me
personally!   YES, I
> know that RVJ has much more operating trackage now, but at typical museums
you shuttle
> back and forth on 1,000--feet of track trying to emulate operations over a
26,000--foot
> trolleycar line!   It is quite ridiculous!   Haven't been to RVJ for about
5--years, maybe
> more, and usually just go to look at the bookstore where a good orderly
collection of
> books exists   ---   archival interest again.
> But again, I want to caution Myself, these people are trying to relive an
aspect of the
> trolleycar scene that intrigues them and they are certainly free so to do.
It is a
> turn-off to me, so I stay away, but it is not wrong by any standard.
> What is assessed as  *off--the--deep--end*  is usually something beyond
one's personal
> interests.   A dictionary of such does not exist to my knowledge.
>
> Conversely, it is Not Wrong to talk technical aspects of trolleycars   ---
and talking
> technical aspects of trolleycars  DOES  NOT  classify someone as arrogant.
Certain
> groups of people might not be interested in technical aspects
(Accountants(:->),
> photographers, J.Q.Public), but it is Most Definitely an aspect of
trolleycar museums.
> Again, without TrolleyCar Equipment a trolleycar museum does not exist and
it is
> necessary to keep trolleycar equipment operating so a knowledge of the
technical side is
> important.   Otherwise, Bernie Orient, Bruce Wells, Scott Davis, and Many
Others are being
> painted as real loonies, and that is anyhthing but the case.
> What we see is that there are many aspects to the trolleycar museum, that
human Time and
> Interest is limited in scope and personal gifts will not span all those
gifts necessary at
> museums, and that each individual needs to find his gift, develop it and
use it, and
> accept those with gifts different than his own.   It takes variety and
spice and
> acceptance to make a good cohesive museum.
>
> Arrogance is a trait  *common*  to inhumanity   ---   definitely not an
exclusive to
> Railfans.   It is recognized as inappropriate to turn the conversation
technical in the
> presence of J.Q.Public, but a museum is a repository of technical info and
one would hope
> a railfan could access this information.
>
> Again,  $$,$$$.$$  talk and it is J.Q.Public and grants that bring in the
bucks so this
> is where the focus of the museums lie   ---   thus pushing those with
technical inquiries
> away, RailFan or Not!
>
> I don't like the docent experience at trolleycar museums   ---   I don't
*need*  it
> ---   I was there on trolleycars when they  *Really*  operated.   I have
definitely taken
> Ed's and Dennis' comments under advisement and recognize that PTM puts a
great deal of
> effort into training docents and PTM is definitely outstanding in this
field (as PTM is in
> many areas!(:->)),  but when I ride the trolleycar, I just want to
experience it.   A
> docent at San Jose's Winchester Mystery House is greatly appreciated
because I
> *need--to--know*  the background and history to enjoy the experience, but
I don't need
> that with trolleycars   ---   I would rather read to gain trolleycar
information than to
> hear a speech.
>
> > ...My wife also had a co-worker who had an annual pass for a renaissance
> > fair, and dressed accordingly.  Went every weekend.  The word 'bizarre'
was
> > often used to describe this co-worker. (who was perhaps actually trying
to
> > escape a somewhat dysfunctional home life - a long sordid story)
>
> Like you say, there is more to this story.   But consider Fort Edmonton
where all the
> volunteers dress the early 1900s.   They might do this every weekend as
well.   A hobby
> and not necessarily  *off--the--deep--end*  in and of itself.
> Again, what one assess as  *off--the--deep--end*  is something outside
personal
> preferences.   Remember, those interested in any aspect of trolleycars
have generally been
> belittled and according to J.Q.Public,  ALL  trolleycar enthusiasts are
> *off--the--deep--end.*
>
> > Again, just a distant members viewpoint
>
> .......And even more distant here!
>
> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
>
> James B. Holland
>
> Holland  Electric  Railway  Operation
>     "O"--Scale  St.-Petersburg Trams Company Trolleycars  &
>         "O"--Scale  Parts  mailto:pghpcc at pacbell.net
>         Pennsylvania Trolley Museum (PTM) http://www.pa-trolley.org/
>     Pittsburgh  Railways  Company  (PRCo),   1930  --  1950
> N.M.R.A.  Life member #2190; http://www.nmra.org
>
> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
>