[PRCo] Re: To PCC or Not to PCC?.......That is the Question.

[Fred W. Schneider III]

Jim ... you've forgotten that TRC sued Brill and won on the trucks.  It
was that resilient wheel over which they wrangled.  That is why I
counted the Brill output as PCCs.  

Jim Holland wrote:
> 
> Good Morning!!
> 
> > Kenneth Josephson wrote:
> 
> > There are those who insist the St. Louis built Red Arrow Cars and the Muni Magic
> > Carpet units were PCCs (they weren't) and that the CTA  "Spam Cans" were not
> > PCCs (they were.)
> 
>         And this is upheld by the PCC books as well.   Some locals said they discovered some
> secret papers indicating that the royalties were made a part of the purchase price because
> a SF ordinance prevented the city from paying royalties on transit or other equipment.
> So there  *may*  be some justification to calling the Magic Carpets PCCs.
>         Those MCs that used Brill trucks were not PCCs, but for all practical purposes the other
> cars were.   Red Arrow cars used MCB trucks which excludes them from being PCCs, Yes?
> 
> > 1.) Suppose TARS, Milwaukee Electric or the Key System decided to go a step
> > further and had ordered all new PCC trucks, controls and passenger equipment
> > from the various suppliers to rebuild some of their older cars?  Would
> > these have become PCCs?
> 
>         This sounds similar to the Gomaco Council Crest Cars, but certainly not the same.   It
> would  *seem*  that the definition depends on  *Original--Building.*   TrolleyCars can be
> modified  after--the--fact  to include PCC equipment, but this would not necessarily
> qualify the car as a PCC.
> 
> > 2.) If somebody finds a Birney body in a barn (or doing duty as a shed),
> > fabricates a truck, and gets the thing running without the original style safety
> > equipment (controls), is it no longer a Birney?
> 
>         Tougher question.   It is  *representative*  of the Birney car   ---   how's that   (for
> dodging the question?)
> 
>         It seems that  *at least 2-factors*  affect definitions::  1)--We live in an imperfect
> world and  2)--Definitions seem circular.
> 
>         *WE*  associate The term  *Interurban*  with  PE,  North Shore,  CA&E,  OE,  C&LE,
> BCER,  etc., etc., etc.   But the term is equally applicable to motor coaches, even
> railroads.   It is transit between two cities and in the case of rail equipment like PE,
> it is mostly on prw!
> 
>         The term  *streetcar*  is defined as a vehicle that provides transit in a city while
> operating in the streets.   This can include a  horse--car,  cable--car,  trolleycar,
> battery--car,  etc., etc., etc.
> 
>         Now, then, to be perfectly specific about the type of interurban of which one speaks, do
> we say  *Interurban--trolleycar??*   Seems like a misnomer since trolleycars run mostly on
> streets and interurbans mostly on prw.
> 
>         And an acceptable definition of  *Light--Rail*  centers on infrastructure (not
> weight--tonnage) and states that light rail contains mostly prw (grade separation) but
> possibly  *some*  street running.
> 
>         So it seems that some terms can  cross--pollinate  other terms.
> 
>         Takes yer choice   ---   don't know who said that!
> 
> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
> 
> James B. Holland
> 
> Holland  Electric  Railway  Operation.......
> ......"O"--Scale  St.-Petersburg Trams Company Trolleycars  AND......
> ............"O"--Scale  Parts  mailto:pghpcc at pacbell.net
> 
> ............Pennsylvania Trolley Museum (PTM) http://www.pa-trolley.org/
> ......Pittsburgh  Railways  Company  (PRCo),   1930  --  1950
> N.M.R.A.  Life member #2190; http://www.nmra.org
> 
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