[PRCo] Re: To PCC or Not to PCC?.......That is the Question.

[Fred W. Schneider III]

I love it!  Great show!  And keep track too of those who never say
anything because they didn't notice!  

You haven't given up trying to learn.  How fabulous.  I'm serious.  But
don't be too hard on them for most couldn't tell a B, B2, B2b, B3 or B6
truck if it fell on them.  If they simply recognize that the wrong car
has an inside framed truck, you've proven a point.  

Having co-authored the books on the PCC, I never cease to be amazed by
the number of people who quote those books without ever having read
them.  One man, whom I still have lunch with most Wednesdays, started a
discussion fifteen years ago by telling me what a man named Schneider
had said about PCC cars.  "No, I don't think so."  He insisted.  "No I'm
pretty sure that isn't in the book."  Then he asked why I was so sure. 
"I wrote it."  I suspect that three-fourths of the purchasers never read
anything deeper than photo captions, and then they probably skipped
those in the chapters that explain and define the car.  

"Dietrich, Robert J." wrote:
> 
> Hello:
> 
> Two things keep me reading mail from this group; PRCo, of course, and the
> knowledge and gentlemanliness (no offense if there are ladies aboard).  We
> have a genuine expert on PCC cars, operators and management of the PRCo,
> access to every document ever produced for and by the government of the
> Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, all in a group of smart people who want to
> share what they know.  We don't have anyone on a soapbox trying to force
> opinions on us, or anyone criticizing anyone or everyone, and we all know
> where the delete key is located.
> 
> That said I've read a good many posts in this thread and the thing that I
> noticed first is that only railfans care (that is why it can be debated so
> much here).  But I wonder how many trolley fans (members of this list
> exempted of course) know what makes a streetcar a PCC.  So I'm going to have
> to try a little experiment.  I'll swap the drives in a couple cars - put a
> PCC body on Brill trucks, and a Brill body on PCC trucks.  I'll take these
> to an East Penn meet that is frequented by about 500 trolley fans.  I'll
> keep track of the comments and report back on the results.  My bet is that
> most comments will be along the lines of:  "What are those trucks doing on
> that PCC car" and "What kind of trucks do you have on that Brill car", and
> very few "Why is that Brill body on that PCC car".
> 
> Now don't get impatient with me, the next East Penn Meet is in May 2003 but
> I'll try the experiment at the mini meet in May 2002 if I get a round toit.
> 
> So keep this group together until at least May 2003 and someone remind  me
> about this commitment a month or two ahead.
> 
> Bob
> 
>  -----Original Message-----
> From:   Jim Holland [mailto:pghpcc at pacbell.net]
> Sent:   Wednesday, November 21, 2001 4:43 AM
> To:     pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> Subject:        [PRCo] Re: To PCC or Not to PCC?.......That is the Question.
> 
> Good Morning!!
> 
>         To take this a little further.   Mainline RRs can have interurban
> service   ---   the
> Pennsy running strictly between Pgh and Johnstown might be considered such.
> Or Pgh. and
> Cleveland.
> 
>         But it might be stretching it a bit to say Pgh. to Philly on a
> RR--train is interurban
> and certainly Pgh. to Chicago is stretching the point and Pgh to LA is
> Trans--Continental,
> definitely out of interurban class (although possibly still applicable.)
> 
>         But then again, people in the 1920s boasted about being able to take
> the  *Trolleycar*
> from Pgh to places in Wisconsin, changing frequently to get there, but it is
> still by
> traditional interurban as we know them!!
> 
>         .......And an interurban--trolleycar line started construction to
> connect NY and
> Chicago!!
> 
>         It is difficult (so it seems) to draw a line   ---   and when that
> line is drawn, it is
> often in Sand!!(:->)
> 
> > Jim Holland wrote:
> 
> >         It seems that  *at least 2-factors*  affect definitions::  1)--We
> live in an imperfect
> > world and  2)--Definitions seem circular.
> >         *WE*  associate The term  *Interurban*  with  PE,  North Shore,
> CA&E,  OE,  C&LE,
> > BCER,  etc., etc., etc.   But the term is equally applicable to motor
> coaches, even
> > railroads.   It is transit between two cities and in the case of rail
> equipment like PE,
> > it is mostly on prw!
> >         The term  *streetcar*  is defined as a vehicle that provides
> transit in a city while
> > operating in the streets.   This can include a  horse--car,  cable--car,
> trolleycar,
> > battery--car,  etc., etc., etc.
> >         Now, then, to be perfectly specific about the type of interurban
> of which one speaks, do
> > we say  *Interurban--trolleycar??*   Seems like a misnomer since
> trolleycars run mostly on
> > streets and interurbans mostly on prw.
> >         And an acceptable definition of  *Light--Rail*  centers on
> infrastructure (not
> > weight--tonnage) and states that light rail contains mostly prw (grade
> separation) but
> > possibly  *some*  street running.
> >         So it seems that some terms can  cross--pollinate  other terms.
> >         Takes yer choice   ---   don't know who said that!
> 
> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
> 
> James B. Holland
> 
> Holland  Electric  Railway  Operation.......
> ......"O"--Scale  St.-Petersburg Trams Company Trolleycars  AND......
> ............"O"--Scale  Parts  mailto:pghpcc at pacbell.net
> 
> ............Pennsylvania Trolley Museum (PTM) http://www.pa-trolley.org/
> ......Pittsburgh  Railways  Company  (PRCo),   1930  --  1950
> N.M.R.A.  Life member #2190; http://www.nmra.org
> 
> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>