[PRCo] Re: PITTSBURGH PCC ROLLSIGNS

[John Swindler]

>John F Bromley  mentioned:
>
>AS FAR AS I KNOW, DORMONT JUNCTION WAS AT WEST LIBERTY AV WHERE 42 CAME ON, 
>WHILE THE SOUTH END OF PALM GARDEN IS DAWN AV JUNCTION.
>


Your right.  That will teach me not to rely on motormen references.

See Transportation Department order # 2343 for operation of spacing signals 
outbound in Tunnel Yard.  The spacing signals provided "continuous spacing 
control between Mt. Washington Junction and Dawn Ave. Junction."

And Transportation Dept. order # 1130 pertains to Operating Procedures for 
backing cars at Dormont Jct. Wye.

John


>----- Original Message -----
>From: "John Swindler" <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
>To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
>Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 11:16 AM
>Subject: [PRCo] Re: PITTSBURGH PCC ROLLSIGNS
>
>
> > >Fred Schneider mentioned:
> > >
> > >There were a wide variety of owl routes, and also combinations that 
>took
> > >place after abandonment of some routes ... such as the paving of West
> > >Liberty Avenue between Brookline Blvd. and Dormont Junction lead to 
>42/38
> > >as a regular route,
> >
> >
> > The repaving was between Brookline Jct. (rj.  W. Liberty Ave. and
>Brookline
> > Blvd) and Dormont Wye.
> >
> > Dormont Jct. was at the south end of Palm Garden trestle where 42 line
> > branched off from 38 and 39 line.
> >
> >
> > >diminished patronage in the 1950s lead to a 6/13 owl (later full time
>under
> > >PAT) to eliminate the redundancy of having both 13 and 15 running on
> > >California Avenue.
> >
> > In the 1950s it was a 6/15 owl car (or at least off-peak).  It was 
>changed
> > to 6/13 circa 1960, and then 6/14 after route truncated to Avalon Loop 
>in
> > early 1960s.
> >
> >
> > >I don't have a PAT map handy, but might 5th and Craig be a Craft
> > Avenue barn or a Duquesne Gardens sign?
> > >
> >
> >
> > 5th & Craig was near where the Stadium-Forbes Field cars were stored 
>until
> > after a ball game.  There was double track in an 'alley' or private 
>street
> > between Neville and Craig.  In 'my day', it was a high rise apartment, 
>but
> > was formerly the Duquesne Gardens (how many remember the Pittsburgh
>Hornets
> > hockey team??) and originally the car barn for one of the independents.
> >
> > Craft Ave. barn was at the other end of Oakland.  Halket St. was the 
>time
> > point (access track between Forbes and Fifth) for Craft Ave.  Hmmmmm.
>Halket
> > St. time point may apply to Fifth Ave. cars only.
> >
> > I don't recall ever seeing a 54 FIFTH and CRAIG ONLY destination sign.
> > Perhaps that goes back to low-floor days.  In the early 1960s, the
>employee
> > schedules for STADIUM-FORBES FIELD cars were identified as route 79 
>SHADY.
> >
> >
> > >I would be very suspicious of anything on any car used for a fantrip
> > >because railfan created signs were often left behind after the trips,
> > >allowing at least one member of this list to run cars signed for Gotham
> > >City via Bat Cave in revenue service.  Remember that 5432 was the last
> > >active low floor (as the traffic paint car), and it was used for at 
>least
> > >one fantrip.
> > >
> > >How come no one has asked why the only surviving  car with a number
> > >descending of single digits was chosen for the traffic paint car....
> >
> >
> > It wasn't a choice of 1 out of a thousand; 5432 was selected from the 
>ten
> > remaining low floor cars still on the property after the Homewood fire.
> > Check 'Headlights'.  After all, it was being put together in Pittsburgh 
>at
> > that time.
> >
> > And yes, your right, Fred, about being very suspicious of some of the
>signs
> > that appeared on fantrip cars.  It seemed that just about every fantrip 
>in
> > early 1960s involved a switch of the front destination sign as initial
> > preparation.  Which means that just about every photo that everyone has 
>of
>a
> > Pittsburgh Rys. fantrip car from early 1960s features a front 
>destination
> > sign from someone's private collection.
> >
> > John S.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >There would have beenonly two other such cars four digit numbers: 4321,
>and
> > >3210.  Hmm ... if SPTC ever gets to the single door Jones car, I think 
>I
> > >might by that one in maroon paint.  Maybe I could also buy a PCC 
>numbered
> > >1234.
> > >
> > >Macmarka at cs.com wrote:
> > >
> > > >   Yet another variation would be 19-Western-Woods Run. Just ran 
>across
> > >another photo showing car 5432 at Ingram CH sporting the sign 54-Fifth
>and
> > >Craig St. Only. And I know I'm a little behind all you seasoned 
>veterans,
> > >but I was totally unaware of the combined  44/48 Knoxville-Arlington
>until
> > >I saw one of your photos John.  It would be interesting to see such a
>list
> > >if one were available.                        Mark Mc  (my tab key just
> > >decided to
> > > > quit on me)
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
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> >
> >


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