[PRCo]
Edward H. Lybarger
twg at pulsenet.com
Fri Feb 7 17:13:28 EST 2003
That paragraph about motor failures was pure Brownie. Just like the
Connellsville car house was in Uniontown! There is no reason the motors
would not tolerate the voltages out there...if the motors were running that
close to their top end something would be radically wrong. The cars served
well on Latrobe, Phillips and Fairchance until the demand for larger cars
necessitated the conversion of 8 of the 10 remaining 2-man 700s. But the
motors did not like water...and they were closer to the street on the Irwin
line! The Valley Route was largely side-of-the road with sidings extending
out into the street.
Jim, why does all my email from you come through looking like this? And I
get a second copy, too, with MY name as the sender! Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 4:19 PM
Subject: [PRCo] Re: West--Penn__830s__and__280s
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Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 13:19:06 -0800
From: Jim Holland <pghpcc at pacbell.net>
Subject: [PRCo] Re: West--Penn__830s__and__280s
To: "-->- PRCo -- WP -- JTC -<--" <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
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Good Morning!
Pg.9 of the PRMA publication on *West__Penn__Railways* states the
following, and I quote::
"""The 830s had their problem in the Coke Region. They were equipped
with small WH-1425 motors, which were subject to excessive failure when
run on the higher-than-normal voltages used in the Coke Region. These
motors were designed for 300-volt operation and were wired in permanent
series pairs, not unusual for modern motors. Consequently, most of
these cars fell into disuse, with only the 831 and 832 having their
motors rewound to correct the problem."""
"""During the war years, 830-series cars were operated on the 'back'
line from Connellsville to Uniontown (and also on Latrobe-Hecla and
Greensburg-Larimer.) Since most had not been repainted, their
presence on the run might account for the 'back' line's being shown as
the "Valley Route" on a 1945 system track map published by a group not
too familiar with the system!"""
Pg.11 of the same publication indicates that Brownsville, Footedale,
and Latrobe had substations producing the lowest voltages on the system
-- 690-volts -- with Uniontown producing 730-volts and the other 4
were 700-, 705-, 705-, and 720-volts. This is confirmed on pg.12 of
the original PERC publication on WP.
This article also says that the 830s were the last curved-side cars
built by Cincinnati so I would question the problem with the snow --
curved-side cars were quite successful. Also, the 1425 motors were
smaller and again should lessen clearance problems. Lastly, the 830s
seemed to be successful on the *Original Valley Route* with its fair
share of street running and snow clearance. The biggest loophole is
that streets on the Irwin branch were never cleared of snow whereas all
other streets with curved-side cars were!
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [PRCo] Re: Derry
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:57:25 -0500
From: "Edward H. Lybarger" <twg at pulsenet.com>
Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
The 280s weren't actually in storage very long. McKeesport quit in
June of 1938. The company intended originally to upgrade the Irwin
route by leasing from themselves the twelve Allegheny Valley cars.
The experiment didn't work (I've been told that the motors, etc. were
too low to the ground to get over the snow in the streets... one story
has it that the whole fleet [or such of it as was out on that line]
crippled one winter day due to moisture in the motors. (I have not
been able to verify the story with a news report.) and West Penn quickly
decided to refurbish the 280s instead. Thus the first one appeared
during the summer of 1939, and the others followed in service fairly
quickly.
-----Original Message-----
From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
[mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org]On Behalf Of Fred
Schneider
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 8:09 PM
To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
Subject: [PRCo] Re: Derry
I probably didn't put a whole lot of information on the picture I gave
you of the car in Main Street in Latrobe. Westmoreland cars 1-4 were
the cars that migrated to West Penn when Westmoreland bought cars like
102. The older cars became 610, 611, 612 and 613 on West Penn and I
think they were not used a whole lot after 1939. Car 611 might have
been the last active one and it was used with 204 in South Connellsville
service until West Penn changed their minds and decided to reactivate
the 286-297 series of cars. I've never seen a picture of 612. Dengler
did photograph 610, 611 and 613. George Arnoux had a picture of one of
the cars used as a diner in Connellsville's West Side about 1948.
And what was the deal with the 280s? After the McKeesport Division was
shutdown in 1938, they were stored and advertised for sale. The
connection with the McKeesport closure? They were built for city
service in McKeesport. The interurban service from McKeesport to Irwin
and Trafford used the 1902 Stephenson cars (208 and 210 were assigned at
the end). Irwin - Greensburg was also using low 200s. OK .. so West
Penn wants to sell them. But there were not too many companies that
wanted just a dozen broad gauge steel cars.
Outside of Pennsylvania there weren't too many properties ... New
Orleans and, if not mistaken, part of the Columbus system. Not many
companies. Adding to the problem was the B-50 control ... regenerative
braking was unheard off outside of southwestern Pennsylvania and Europe
at that time. So, after several years of dead storage, with employment
turning upward again and the Depression ending, West Penn elected to
keep the 280s. Most were given 27F trucks from the low-200s that were
being scrapped. Cars 296 and 297 retained the original arch bar
trucks. Don't ask why and I won't be compelled to make up facts. The
rebuilding from two-man rear entrance to one-man front entrance (and the
widening of the front doors) took place earlier and while they were
still in McKeesport local service. When did they come out of storage?
Damfino. The earliest picture I have of a rebuild shows 290 at Trafford
in August 1939. The most recent and dated picture of a 200 in that same
service shows 212 at Trafford in April 1940.
When did the Westmoreland cars go out of service on the West Penn. We
have a C J Dengler picture of 611 -- clean windows, polished flanges,
taken August 27, 1939. The advertising frame on the front of the car
proclaims that ANDY HARDY GET'S SPRING FEVER and KID FROM KOKOMO were
showing at the Orpheum Theater in Connellsville from August 25 to August
29. When the car was pulled out of the car house in August 1941 for the
N. R. H. S. Pittsburgh Conventioneers' cameras, it still bore that same
advert. I think that is pretty graphic evidence that the last
Westmoreland car was stored serviceable at the end of August 1939.
>> On Sun, 2 Feb 2003, Edward H. Lybarger wrote:
>> I thought so! That's the loose end that I think finishes the map.
> Derrick J Brashear wrote:
> Thanks to Ed there's some stuff at
> http://trolley.dementia.org/wcry
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James B. Holland
Holland Electric Railway Operation.......
___"O"--Scale St.-Petersburg Trams Company Trolleycars and...
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___Pittsburgh Railways Company (PRCo), 1930 -- 1950
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