[PRCo] Re: I was in USA!

[Fred Schneider]

You're absolutely right Jim.  And of course what I observed in 36 years of government
service was also totally incorrect.

"James B. Holland" wrote:

> Your assessment of  *Government__Operated__Agencies*  is  NOthing more
> than personal opinion // conclusions;  I-F  it was really that bad, then
> the USA would have been down and out Very Long Ago.       """Everybody
> knows it's this way"""   is the best evidence to support such
> accusations and that would absolutely never ever hold up in court.
>
> Transit Agencies were on a downhill slide starting in the 1920s and that
> slide greatly accelerated post WW2 with Very Wide Spread auto
> usage.       Transit agencies were struggling but the thought of the day
> in the 1940s and 1950s was that Private Transit Agencies were not able
> to make it work so it was necessary to take them public  --  into govt.
> sector.       AND__Today  the cry is:   govt. transit agencies don't
> work  --  Privatize__Them!
>
> What people fail to realize is that it is  NOT  the system  --  it is
> the people behind the system.       A case in Point  --  How Many Times
> Have We Heard That:       """Money Is The Root Of All Evil?"""
>
> WRONG!!!!!!!       The above is a misquote  --  it is the  LOVE  of
> money that is the root of all evil  --  it is human altitude toward
> money that is evil  --  Not Money Itself.       Nothing Inherently Evil
> in Private Enterprize, Socialism, and many other forms of society  --
> it is just the people behind the same that make it work // fail.
>
> And to really level the playing field, It Is Written that all our
> righteousness [goodness] is like filthy rags  --  and the word
> translated  *rags*  is  *Menstrual__rags*  in the original
> language.       Humans measure goodness relative to one another so in
> reality, some may not be  *As__Bad__As*  others but the human condition
> is still desperately wanting.       It is Not Just The Politicians  --
> all are subject to the same temptations  --  put any one of us in there
> and watch what happens over time.
>
> Remember  --  in the USA the govt. is:::::::
>
> """.......Of__The__People.......
>
> By__The__People.......
>
> For__The__People."""
>
> The People Are The Govt  --  The People Are The Problem.
>
> Jim__Holland
>
> Fred Schneider wrote:
>
> >I think you are comparing private enterprise to a government authority.  This is
> >unfair in this instance because there is no commonality between the two just
> >because they are in the United States.   You should not compare the U. S. to the
> >Czech Republic; you need to compare private and government businesses in the U.
> >S. without any regard whatsoever to how something is done in Europe.  U. S.
> >governmental transit agencies also behave very differently from those in Europe.
> >Private corporations borrowed money (stocks, bonds) to build a line, and
> >hopefully earned enough money by operating that line to cover all operating
> >expenses and to pay back all the loans.  It did not, in actuality, work that
> >way.  The totals for all the companies in Pennsylvania showed they had  enough
> >money at the end of the year to pay bills on hand at the end of the year in only
> >four of the fifty-one years from 1900 to 1950.  But they were at least set up
> >with the idea that they would pay their bills.  And they either controlled their
> >expenses (labor, materials, interest, capital repayments, insurance, taxes and
> >so forth) or they went out of business.  And one way you controlled costs was by
> >not fixing things that didn't show.  You also didn't fix things on cars that you
> >planned to retire.  And by the time 1138 was retired, business was declining
> >rapidly enough that the railways company had a surplus of PCC cars and could ill
> >afford to waste money on any of the older ones.  We knew they were rusted then.
> >So did the railways company.  And Pullman Standard came in to Pittsburgh in the
> >early 1960s to assess a proposal to make double-end PCCs for emergencies; my
> >friend with the P-S told me then that only the 1700s were good enough to invest
> >money into and then they were only marginally good enough.
> >
> >Government operated agencies exist for the benefit neither of the governed nor
> >the users but to provide jobs for important government people and to provide a
> >conduit through which money is moved to support those people more deserving of
> >it than you or I.  It is not important if the people in the shops are working or
> >are not working.  What is important is that they or their union contribute money
> >to the politicians' reelection funds, that the equipment builders and other
> >contractors also contribute money.  It is important to the local politicians
> >that they control this huge agency that buys labor and materials and issues
> >contracts to consultants, car rebuilders, track rebuilders, and so forth in
> >order that some of that money might come back to the elected officials.  It is
> >not called a bribe.  It is called a contribution to the reelection campaign.
> >
> >One person on another list opined today that MBTA in Boston does not want to
> >have anything photographed because it might show someone doing nothing.  And he
> >went on to relate an incident during his tenure when a mechanic at Mattapan came
> >to work drunk, watched television all day while he continued to drink.  His
> >successor came in that afternoon and found that he had to repair five dead PCCs
> >in time for the evening rush.  He got a hammer and broke up the television set.
> >The incident turned into a fist fight.  Both were fired.  Then the governor of
> >the Commonwealth of Massachusetts order the MBTA to reinstate both to their jobs
> >(places to sit and collect money?).  Just maybe the order happened because the
> >transport workers union had passed a half million dollars into the governor's
> >reelection fund?  That was the suggestion I read today.  In Boston, the union
> >and the politicos run the show.  Obviously it wasn't the public or they would
> >not have gotten away with shutting down all the train service to the north and
> >all subway service to North Station last week during the Democratic convention,
> >and then running special trains from North Station and the end of the convention
> >each night.
> >
> >Virtually all of the major government owned transit authorities in the United
> >States were formed with in a very short time span in the late 1960s and early
> >1970s.  It probably would not have happened if government had to make money.
> >But I feel that this happened as fast as it did simply because the politicians
> >were totally aware of the value of the money they would control and what it
> >would buy them.
> >
> >The private and government systems are totally different ... one had to make
> >money to survive and the government agencies have the right to pick our pockets
> >to pay the people who do nothing.
> >
> >And do the workers care as you suggested?  My feeling is that about 9 workers
> >out of 10 do not care about their jobs.  Only about one out of ten like what
> >they are doing, and would be happy to be there even without the money.  But in
> >the case of the Adtranz people at Elmira who worked on PRC 1138 and 1711 and PTC
> >2711, they were the good people that Adtranz wanted to maintain in case they
> >were able to win the next bid.  The others were gone and the plant was mostly
> >empty.   I remember taking a load of truck parts for 1138 up to Elmira and being
> >shown around.  I was incredibly impressed by the people who were doing the body
> >work ... one of those men was welding new steel into 1138, grinding down the
> >welds, and finishing it to a level of perfection unheard of for streetcar work.
> >Certainly PRC could not have invested that time.  I found out that he had
> >previously worked in an autobody repair shop.  And if I was lucky enough to have
> >a 1930 Packard auto needing restoration, I would want him to do it.  I'm pretty
> >sure they [Adtranz]  either bid or were considering a bid on the 18 rebuilt cars
> >for SEPTA.  However, that plant was closed when Bombardier acquired Adtranz.
> >
> >
> >Boris Cefer wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>My experience says that no supervision is absolute. In addition, all people
> >>like to make their job easier; some more, some less. Some even don't care
> >>about results of their job. They don't care if something is done precisely
> >>and thoroughly, or it is botched. I think that workmanship almost
> >>disappeared from this world and only hobbyists dispose it. All is only job.
> >>
> >>I failed to understand Economics 101. OK. But I expected that working morals
> >>has to be better in the USA than here because you seem to have better
> >>economical results as a whole country.
> >>I was again wrong. At shops in Philadelphia I didn't see many people
> >>working, they were mostly sitting and talking about what they will do after
> >>the shift ends in hour.
> >>
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "Fred Schneider"
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Your opinion is wrong.  They [Adtranz] did what they were told to do,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>under supervision from PTM.  I did not use the world asbestos ... you did.
> >>But that was the issue.  Asbestos presents legal issues and its presence
> >>causes the workers to follow legal and very expensive requirements for its
> >>removal,, regardless of your opinion.   We are dealing with United States
> >>and New York State and Pennsylvania health and safety laws.
> >>
> >>
> >>>To make profits as high as possible is correct as far as you have taken it
> >>>
> >>>
> >>... more correct would be to say to make any profit at all.  The money
> >>simply wasn't there to make cars look nice.  The city made every effort
> >>possible to control Pittsburgh Railways' income and in the 1960s to make
> >>them loose money so that the county could condemn the private company at a
> >>lower cost.   I think you fail to understand Economics 101 as it applies to
> >>business in a free world economy.
> >>
> >>