[PRCo] Re: PTM festivities

[Fred Schneider]

The rest of the group will never understand how we pick on each other!

"Edward H. Lybarger" wrote:

> I believe that you denounced only the cruise, not the state.  Janis and I
> are looking forward to the trip with you and Marie.
>
> You know that this is all good-natured fun.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org]On Behalf Of Fred
> Schneider
> Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 5:06 PM
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: PTM festivities
>
> I take pride it the title.  I think I also denounced going to Alaska once
> but I
> think you and Janice and Marie are changing my mind.
>
> "Edward H. Lybarger" wrote:
>
> > Fred simply dislikes change...no amount of rationalization explains it any
> > other way!  But I'm at least going to teach newcomers what the facts are.
> >
> > I remember not too long ago when Fred denounced the Internet as
> unnecessary
> > and something he'd never have!  Before that it was the computer and
> > afterwards the cell phone.  But I detect his use of all three today!
> >
> > This is an important part of being a curmudgeon!
> >
> > Ed
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
> > [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org]On Behalf Of Fred
> > Schneider
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 2:23 PM
> > To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> > Subject: [PRCo] Re: PTM festivities
> >
> > And the P&W is route 100 of SEPTA but not in my mind.  I grew up with the
> > P&W and
> > it will always be that way.
> >
> > I have great difficulty accepting Norfolk Southern (that was a small
> > railroad
> > with reddish orange Baldwin diesels down south).  Furthermore, NS still
> > hasn't
> > gotten rid of the blue Conrail paint.  The Penn Central green never
> > happened.
> > Lancaster is still on the Pennsy in my mind.  And the Best and Only still
> > runs
> > through the gray matter.
> >
> > The commuter trains on the north side of Philly are still the Reading
> > routes.
> >
> > And Arden is two sylables, not ten.  PTM is three.  Guess which one I'm
> > going to
> > use informally?
> >
> > "James B. Holland" wrote:
> >
> > > Edward H. Lybarger wrote:
> > >
> > > >Oops...I should have said "Arden is not the name of a trolley museum
> any
> > > >more."  But I'm just reacting as any good businessperson would and
> > should.
> > > >
> > > >The name "Arden" appears in the museum's own history, but we're
> > representing
> > > >the museum like it is now and will grow to in the future, not how it
> used
> > to
> > > >be.  "How it used to be" involves the industry we're describing to the
> > > >public!
> > > >
> > > >Those who use the old name may do so out of fondness or out of
> > unwillingness
> > > >to accept change, but I will speak for myself and Dennis also, along
> with
> > > >scores of other volunteers, and tell the world that I'm about the
> future.
> > > >That future deals with the Trolley Era in Pennsylvania, etc. and not
> what
> > > >any given trolley museum used to be named.  I don't believe this to be
> > > >unfair!
> > > >
> > > >Ed
> > > >
> > >
> > >              I understand your points, Ed.
> > >
> > >              VTA, Valley Transportation Authority, succeeded Santa Clara
> > > something or other possibly because service was over a wider area than
> > > previously served.       VTA quite insistent and precise about name
> > change.
> > >
> > >              And when  ({[pat]})  took over  PRCo, the old logo was
> > > painted over and the rectangular  ({[pat]})  ownership label placed
> > > under the car number each side.
> > >
> > >              So while the upgrade from PERC to Arden to PRMA to PTM is
> > > the Letter of the Law, saying Arden certainly meets the Spirit of the
> > > Law.       We can easily get too hung up in identifying the messenger
> > > and totally forget the message!       It seems to be an item of extreme
> > > importance to you that is lost on the rest of us.
> > >
> > >              I have consciously mulled this over in the past when
> > > writing information about Arden and beg to differ about outsiders not
> > > recognizing the name    ----    trolley fans across the country and
> > > around the world know it as Arden because yearly listings With Photos
> > > were published in Van Jones Traction and Models which clearly showed
> > > Arden Trolley Museum on the building.       Because of this, and because
> > > even modern railfans have possibly seen these old T&Ms, I don't hesitate
> > > to use Arden when speaking with railfans.       Even Greg King in Oz has
> > > called it Arden.
> > >
> > >              There Are Quite A Few here who deny being Railfans even
> > > though they collect books about rails, write books // articles about
> > > rails, collect photos about rails, and belong to this list about
> > > rails.       And  ALL  of us use  *Interurban*  as a noun even though it
> > > is an adjective  --  it needs to modify something like TrolleyCar, motor
> > > coach, route, etc.       And this is not a case where a name has changed
> > > but is simply totally wrong application // bad Ingrish.
> > >
> > >              Like Harold, by far I prefer  PERC    ----
> > >
> > > PITTSBURGH   ELECTRIC   RAILWAY   CLUB    ----
> > >
> > > and dislike the move away from that.       The founding Father's had a
> > > particular goal in mind and wish that had been respected.
> > >
> > > Jim__Holland