[PRCo] Re: 1936___Flood -Verona

[Harold Geissenheimer]

Fred and all
I was 15 years old in 1943 when I found an Electric Ry Journal copy
in a used magazine store in NY.  The McGraw Hill Bldg was on 42d
street so I went over there after school to buy a copy.  The guard in
the lobby referred me to their library up stairs.  I learned that they
had the entire set still on file.  I went up...found the librarin very
suspicous of me.  Convinced he that really was interested.

She found me a bound copy of the previous year and she hovered
over me while read parts of it.  Each time I came back, she was less
guarded.  Eventually she even told me about their magazine Bus 
Transportation.

I was in.

For the next 5 or 6 years, I would stop by and  glance at another year 
or so.
A wonderfull experience...going back to horse car days and finally the 
Tranasit
Journal.  A real benefit of my growing up on Manhattan Island.

The green McGraw Hill bldg is still there on 42d Street near the bus
terminal.  MH moved elsewhere.  A bit of history, the Hill Bldg (Before
merger) is still there at 36th Street and 10th Ave)

I really appreciated the interest of these librarians.

Harold Geissenheimer



Fred Schneider wrote:

>Matt:
>
>Twenty years ago I bought the entire Electric Railway Journal (actually three
>names) on microfilm but I never read more than certain parts when I was looking for
>something.
>
>Recently I was looking for something on the first safety car, which Harold Cox said
>was built for Illinois Traction ... a split order for their city systems in Topeka,
>Qunicy and one other city.  Never found what I wanted because safety cars were not
>a paramount concern ... a car that would stop itself wasn't important enough in
>1913 to waste ink and paper.
>
>What did surprise me were the number of proposed trolley lines ... tons of them and
>most were never built.  Some were listed month after month as "in progress" or
>"approved" or "construction will begin next week" or "being built" or "under
>construction and will open soon."   We know that most trolley construction ended
>because of the 1907 financial panic.  Yet the proposals and searches for money
>didn't end.   Yet by 1913 most of them never were any more than dreams.  There was
>one in the Bloomsburg - Berwick area that was reporting progress from 1910 to at
>least 1914 but not a shovel of dirt was ever turned.  But the number of proposed
>lines dropped rapidly around 1913-1914.  By 1914 you could go weeks between
>proposals.  Wonder how this keys to the knowledge that Henry Ford put his first
>primitive assembly line to work in 1913, and began continuous chain assembly line
>work in 1914.  All of a sudden Ford was churning out Tin Lizzies by more than
>100,000 in a year.
>
>So if the line up Frankstown Road was proposed that late, it didn't have a chance.
>
>I remember the rails in the yellow brick street in Oakmont when I was a kid ... now
>we're talking ten years after abandonment.  I can assure you that they were no
>longer there when I went back for my aunt's funeral about five years ago.
>
>
>
>Matt Barry wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Fred,
>>My nephews and I never spoke of the Verona line until they told me they
>>found what they thought was old railroad trackage in that area on the
>>hillside where the auto junk yard is located.  So, I have no reason to
>>doubt them or think it was "urban rumor."
>>
>>You may be correct about the Frankstown Road connection.  But I based my
>>thoughts on later years when that section of Frankstown Road was booming
>>with East Hills shopping center, and other businesses that lined the
>>road up to Verona Road.
>>
>>Fred Schneider wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>I could look it up in the route cards ... again, that means lifting and I
>>>don't do that well right now.  Give me time.
>>>
>>>Yes, there was a fairly substantial trestle over Sandy Creek.    The trestle
>>>was on the north side of Verona Road and therefore not over Sandy Creek Road.
>>>There were two roads that went up to two different points on Frankstown Road;
>>>one was Coal Hollow Road and the other was Lime Hollow Road.  They came
>>>together about a block from Verona Road, and I'm not sure what name prevailed
>>>out to the intersection.
>>>
>>>Track on the hillside in the 1980s?  Urban rumor.  It wasn't there in 1966
>>>when I walked the decaying right-of-way.   Ties?  PRC believed in
>>>non-creosoted ties.  I doubt that any of them survived 30 or 40 years beyond
>>>abandonment.
>>>
>>>Sorry to burst the bubble but I also fail to comprehend how a connecting link
>>>on Frankstown Road from Laketon Road at Eastwood to Homewood would have made
>>>the line any more viable.  That area was suburban with widely spaced houses.
>>>There wasn't enough business to warrant Mr. Deere to run a bus more often than
>>>every hour.  That area was the second fastest growing suburb in Pennsylvania
>>>(second to Levittown, Bucks County) after World War II.  But it was farm
>>>country in 1937.  I lived there!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Matt Barry wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>You mentioned the Verona line, Fred.
>>>>
>>>>I believe the Verona line was abandoned in 1937.
>>>>
>>>>What does the group know about this line?
>>>>
>>>>I know bits and pieces, and please correct me if I am wrong about these.
>>>>
>>>>It began it's routing at Braddock and Forbes Avenue.  Travelling through
>>>>Wilkinsburg to Laketon Road, then up Monitor and then onto prw alongside
>>>>Verona Road.   My nephews, who used to romp through that section of Penn
>>>>Hills in their youth in the 1980's, tell me there were still ties and
>>>>some trackage on the hillside next to Verona Road, between Frankstown
>>>>Road and Sandy Creek Road.  That portion also held junked automobiles at
>>>>that time -- perhaps it still does to this day.   (Hmmm...junked
>>>>automobiles on abandoned trolley tracks, how ironic.) A map in the
>>>>waiting room of  McCrackin Ford on McKnight Road in the North Hills
>>>>shows a the carline pathway in that area,  and it is labelled "old
>>>>Verona carline."
>>>>
>>>>When the line neared the intersection of Verona Road and Sandy Creek
>>>>Road, it would seem to me that there may have been a trestle to carry it
>>>>over this intersection.   Anyone know?
>>>>
>>>>From there, I believe the line crossed over Verona Road and went down
>>>>Third Street either directly on Third or on paralleling prw.  It dipped
>>>>down into Verona and from there, I don't exactly know how it made it's
>>>>way into Oakmont.  I have read stories in Oakmont and Verona history
>>>>booklets that briefly describe some stories about the bridge or bridges
>>>>that carried the cars into Oakmont from Verona, as troublesome.
>>>>Apparently they were wooden and prone to fires.   The stories are sketchy.
>>>>
>>>>In the late 1960's, I distinctly recall seeing the last segment of
>>>>Allegheny River Blvd,  in Oakmont near Hulton Road, as being yellow
>>>>brick with a section of black asphalt going straight up the middle of
>>>>it.   Seeing this, I assumed that beneath that asphalt lie a single line
>>>>car track.
>>>>
>>>>I also know that early route planners were considering connecting up the
>>>>88/87 trackage on Frankstown Avenue in Homewood, with the Verona
>>>>trackage.  Of course, it never happened, but had it it happened, one
>>>>wonders if the route would have lasted beyond 1937.
>>>>
>>>>Matt
>>>>
>>>>Fred Schneider wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>My parents lived in a rented home in Oakmont at the time.   Dad took
>>>>>quite a few pictures of Oakmont and Verona in the flood.  Sadly, as he
>>>>>got older the mind was no longer clear.  He threw everything out without
>>>>>the slightest question about their value.   There is a common picture
>>>>>that the Pittsburgh Press published (the marooned photographer probably
>>>>>walked out of their inbound loading dock onto the Pennsylvania Railroad
>>>>>elevated) showing a streetcar on Liberty or Penn in water up to the roof
>>>>>carlines (that would be something above nine feet of water on the
>>>>>street).   I think I may have the newspapers but finding them in this
>>>>>pit is problematic.
>>>>>As I recall from the route cards, every route was shut down which
>>>>>implies not that every line was under water but that the Duquesne Light
>>>>>plant on Brunot's Island was inundated.   The Oakmont - Verona line was
>>>>>never restored to service but that needs more research to determine if
>>>>>it was flood related or not.  The actually route was mostly above flood
>>>>>stage and also in paved streets in the Allegheny River valley.  If there
>>>>>was any flood damage, it might have been from gullies that fed
>>>>>tributaries to the Allegheny such as Sandy Creek.  I think think that
>>>>>line had simply expired from an overdose of gasoline.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
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