[PRCo] Re: [Fwd: Re: 36drake sent you this eBay item: ORIGINAL SLIDE: PITTSBURGH 1652 AVALON PA LOOP (#2282158170)]

[Edward H. Lybarger]

I don't know of any specific relationship between the car house and the
trailer yard.  Logic might suggest that cars ran alone from Emsworth to
Avalon, then picked up a trailer to go on downtown...EXCEPT THAT the throat
of the trailer yard aimed the wrong way (west)!  The track layout suggested
that a car looping at Avalon would be in perfect position to receive a
trailer on the way around.  Russ Cashdollar swears that he's seen photos of
the double-deck cars in dead storage at Emsworth, so maybe they didn't have
enough space to store everything they had.  And Emsworth closed early, too.
Were cars scrapped there after it ceased operation as an operating barn?  My
roster is in the file cabinets that used to reside in my office and I'm at
home, frustrated as hell because of the pace of the restoration work at
Thepitt.  Maybe FWS could take a quick peek at his copy.

My office is still not habitable (though the Archives is, on a limited
basis).  But we were out of space there before the flood; losing 20% of the
storage space isn't going to help a bit (I don't intend to reuse the bottom
file drawers until we're in our own quarters).  And the stuff that's out for
restoration is scheduled to come back next week!

EHL

-----Original Message-----
From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
[mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org]On Behalf Of Fred
Schneider
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 1:10 PM
To: macmarka at netzero.net; pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
Subject: [PRCo] [Fwd: Re: 36drake sent you this eBay item: ORIGINAL SLIDE:
PITTSBURGH 1652 AVALON PA LOOP (#2282158170)]


Other than to acknowledge that PRC ran motor / trailer trains I don't
know what else I can say.   The Avalon - Emsworth service moved out of
Taggart Street barn in 1906.  I think I remember seeing trailers even in
1903-1906.   They ran more or less continuously until 1931.  When the
economic climate turned upward again, limited trailer operation was
resumed in 1934.  Trailers also ran on the line intermittently in 1936
and 1937.  However, after 1931 there was never again a continuous period
of trailer operation on route 13 or 14.  The final elimination of
trailers in 1937 suggests that were were, by then, enough PCCs available
to allow elimination of trailers on that line.  Note that I'm being
careful to say that line ... I think all trailers were gone in 1937 but
I'm not taking the time to research it.  I'm also being careful not to
say PCCs on 13 replaced trailers, only that the delivery of the 1000s
and 1100s systemwide were sufficient to get rid of trailers.   My
instincts tell me that the trailers were being used instead of pulling
two-man 3400s, 3500s, 4000s and 4100s out of mothballs.

We need a reminder here that Pittsburgh Railways was one of the earliest
major systems in the country to eradicate two-man crews.  I have no
feeling off hand for what they were using to pull trailers.  We know
that the 4800-4939 group were built with K-43 control to allow pulling
2-motor "trailers" and by 1934 all of the low-floor cars were being run
with only a motorman.  But we also know that, until the PCCs were
delievered, PRC still had some active two-man 4000s and 4100s and these
would have required a conductor because of the "pay-as-you-enter" (rear
entrance) design.    I have one picture that aludes to them being used
on route 42 DORMONT in the late 1930s, and that might mean they had
trailers there too.  I didn't bother to look.   The rather water level
configuration of route 13 suggests to me that low-floor motors and
trailers may have been used.  Even though replacing a motor - trailer
set with two motor cars would not reduce the platform crews in any way,
it would have eliminated the nuisance of having a hostler or two
available at Avalon to couple trains and to build fires in the stoves in
trailers.

Pittsburgh seemed very unusual to me in that they ran trailers as late
as they did but almost never used the 272 MU cars in coupled trains.

There was a relatively new Emsworth carbarn.  What I don't know, and
what Ed can tell me, is the relationship between Emsworth barn and the
Avalon trailer yard.

Did this help, Mark?

Mark McGuire wrote:

>  Aha! So that's what the two small lines are for under the 14 on the
> PERC map of 1959. Can someone tell me more about this trailer yard?
> I knew nothing about it. Thanks!
>
>                             Mark