[PRCo] Re: [Fwd: Re: 36drake sent you this eBay item: ORIGINAL SLIDE: PITTSBURGH 1652 AVALON PA LOOP (#2282158170)]

[Fred Schneider]

And I too will swear.

That I saw the 3700s and 3800s in dead storage at Millvale about 1950.    Gives
you a pretty good idea that the system never willingly had a surplus of space on
which they paid property taxes!

"Edward H. Lybarger" wrote:

> I don't know of any specific relationship between the car house and the
> trailer yard.  Logic might suggest that cars ran alone from Emsworth to
> Avalon, then picked up a trailer to go on downtown...EXCEPT THAT the throat
> of the trailer yard aimed the wrong way (west)!  The track layout suggested
> that a car looping at Avalon would be in perfect position to receive a
> trailer on the way around.  Russ Cashdollar swears that he's seen photos of
> the double-deck cars in dead storage at Emsworth, so maybe they didn't have
> enough space to store everything they had.  And Emsworth closed early, too.
> Were cars scrapped there after it ceased operation as an operating barn?  My
> roster is in the file cabinets that used to reside in my office and I'm at
> home, frustrated as hell because of the pace of the restoration work at
> Thepitt.  Maybe FWS could take a quick peek at his copy.
>
> My office is still not habitable (though the Archives is, on a limited
> basis).  But we were out of space there before the flood; losing 20% of the
> storage space isn't going to help a bit (I don't intend to reuse the bottom
> file drawers until we're in our own quarters).  And the stuff that's out for
> restoration is scheduled to come back next week!
>
> EHL
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org]On Behalf Of Fred
> Schneider
> Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 1:10 PM
> To: macmarka at netzero.net; pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> Subject: [PRCo] [Fwd: Re: 36drake sent you this eBay item: ORIGINAL SLIDE:
> PITTSBURGH 1652 AVALON PA LOOP (#2282158170)]
>
> Other than to acknowledge that PRC ran motor / trailer trains I don't
> know what else I can say.   The Avalon - Emsworth service moved out of
> Taggart Street barn in 1906.  I think I remember seeing trailers even in
> 1903-1906.   They ran more or less continuously until 1931.  When the
> economic climate turned upward again, limited trailer operation was
> resumed in 1934.  Trailers also ran on the line intermittently in 1936
> and 1937.  However, after 1931 there was never again a continuous period
> of trailer operation on route 13 or 14.  The final elimination of
> trailers in 1937 suggests that were were, by then, enough PCCs available
> to allow elimination of trailers on that line.  Note that I'm being
> careful to say that line ... I think all trailers were gone in 1937 but
> I'm not taking the time to research it.  I'm also being careful not to
> say PCCs on 13 replaced trailers, only that the delivery of the 1000s
> and 1100s systemwide were sufficient to get rid of trailers.   My
> instincts tell me that the trailers were being used instead of pulling
> two-man 3400s, 3500s, 4000s and 4100s out of mothballs.
>
> We need a reminder here that Pittsburgh Railways was one of the earliest
> major systems in the country to eradicate two-man crews.  I have no
> feeling off hand for what they were using to pull trailers.  We know
> that the 4800-4939 group were built with K-43 control to allow pulling
> 2-motor "trailers" and by 1934 all of the low-floor cars were being run
> with only a motorman.  But we also know that, until the PCCs were
> delievered, PRC still had some active two-man 4000s and 4100s and these
> would have required a conductor because of the "pay-as-you-enter" (rear
> entrance) design.    I have one picture that aludes to them being used
> on route 42 DORMONT in the late 1930s, and that might mean they had
> trailers there too.  I didn't bother to look.   The rather water level
> configuration of route 13 suggests to me that low-floor motors and
> trailers may have been used.  Even though replacing a motor - trailer
> set with two motor cars would not reduce the platform crews in any way,
> it would have eliminated the nuisance of having a hostler or two
> available at Avalon to couple trains and to build fires in the stoves in
> trailers.
>
> Pittsburgh seemed very unusual to me in that they ran trailers as late
> as they did but almost never used the 272 MU cars in coupled trains.
>
> There was a relatively new Emsworth carbarn.  What I don't know, and
> what Ed can tell me, is the relationship between Emsworth barn and the
> Avalon trailer yard.
>
> Did this help, Mark?
>
> Mark McGuire wrote:
>
> >  Aha! So that's what the two small lines are for under the 14 on the
> > PERC map of 1959. Can someone tell me more about this trailer yard?
> > I knew nothing about it. Thanks!
> >
> >                             Mark