[PRCo] Tape__and__Awnings__on__Roof__Monitors

[James B. Holland]

PRCo cars 1600, 1630, and 1700 all arrived without  *Awnings*  (like 
that term)  but the rest of the 1700s arrived with the awnings.       
Have photos of some of the 1700 series interurbans on flat cars and they 
have the awnings  --  don't have a picture of 1701 but will assume it 
arrived with awnings as well.

Some time later both 1600  (http://206.103.49.193/pitts/htm/wvp104.htm)  
and 1630 were retrofitted with awnings.       With the much more 
vertical sides to the roof monitor on these two cars, the opportunity 
for rain to get into the screening was  *less*  but certainly not 
eliminated.       In fact, the picture on pg.172 of Coast to Coast shows 
1600 sans awnings with a regular 17 behind with awnings, of course.     
  The tiny awnings on 1630 would seem to prevent runoff from the roof 
from rolling down the side into the screen more than it would protect 
against rain.

Very Much Agreed that the Awnings are to keep the Wet Weather Out  --  
reasons of black-speckled white shirts, interference with electrical 
gear, corrosion from water / moisture collection, etc. are all 
possibilities.

But This Has Gotten Very Far Afield from the  TAPE  on the 
monitors.       The Only tape I have ever seen was over the gap between 
the monitor and roof on the rounded front end of the 1700-series 
monitor.       Again, placing tape on Screen on the sides would not hold 
and whether or not metal guards were placed there in winter weather as 
protection against the cold is unknown  --  pictures of same have not 
surfaced.       Such covering would seriously hinder fresh air intake 
for a sealed window car - leakage around the doors would not be 
sufficient for fresh air supply although cycling of doors at stops might 
help.       Mr.Tennyson never specified exactly where the tape was 
placed but did indicate that it was for cold weather protection.       
How that little bit of tape on the front of the monitor would help is 
amazing.

Jim__Holland


Fred Schneider wrote:

> The awning like ledge, as you call it, was one I was referring to. 
> Knowing how dirty Pittsburgh was in the 1940s and early 1950s, I can 
> readily understand that PRC did need to prevent any water from 
> entering the fan area. Can you imagine all the dirt that would have 
> collected on the monitor screens and under the front end of the 
> monitor, and then being washed into the fans. I can just see the white 
> shirts covered with black specks.

> Mark McGuire wrote:
>
>> No, I was referring to the tape on the front of the roof monitor.
>> By "covering the side openings" you're no doubt talking about the 
>> slight awning-like ledge over the vents? I have to look at an old 
>> photo of newly acquired 1700 at Millvale to see the difference.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> -- Fred Schneider <fschnei at supernet.com> wrote:
>> I suspect that any tape on the roof monitor was put there to keep out 
>> water. If you look at the earlier pictures of 1700, back when it was 
>> the only car of its type, the roof shroud had nothing covering the 
>> openings on the side. They were covered very shortly afterwards, 
>> probably to keep water from getting into the fans and being blown 
>> into the car. I imagine the tape at the front end served an identical 
>> purpose.
>> I believe Mark was talking about tape around the motorman's vent, 
>> which was not uncommon in the PAT era. Without even looking at the 
>> cars, I would imagine that they were built with a rubber seal around 
>> those vents and that the preferred maintenance was tape as the rubber 
>> aged and hardened and broke off.
>>
>> James B. Holland wrote:
>>
>>> Fred Schneider wrote:
>>>
>>>> Interesting. 20 kw versus 10 kw. But my background is insufficient 
>>>> to tell me what this means in terms of comfort. But it does say 
>>>> that someone thought about the problem up front ... PRC's 
>>>> engineering staff was not totally oblivious to the different 
>>>> demands of city and interurban service.
>>>>
>>>> I think the tape was more likely a result of less than adequate 
>>>> maintenance as the cars aged. It would be easier to cure a heat 
>>>> damper problem with tape so that there is less cold air coming into 
>>>> the car.
>>>>
>>> I believe the tape Mr.Tennyson referred to was put over the curved 
>>> end of the roof monitor on ALL 1700s, not just the interurbans. Look 
>>> at photos of newly delivered equipment -- definite gap between 
>>> monitor and roof at the rounded front end of the monitor. These URLs 
>>> clearly show the cars as delivered WithOut Tape::
>>>
>>> http://206.103.49.193/pitts/htm/pitt155.htm
>>>
>>> http://206.103.49.193/pitts/htm/pitt142.htm
>>>
>>> http://206.103.49.193/pitts/htm/pitt156.htm
>>>
>>> http://206.103.49.193/pitts/htm/pitt144.htm
>>>
>>>
>>> Tape was later placed over this end and remained until The 
>>> End!       Never saw tape over the side screening -- nothing for 
>>> tape to stick to here -- tape wouldn't stay on screen very long. The 
>>> following show the tape over the end:::::::
>>>
>>> http://206.103.49.193/pitts/htm/pitt143.htm
>>>
>>> http://206.103.49.193/pitts/htm/pitt138.htm
>>>
>>> http://206.103.49.193/pitts/htm/pitt141.htm
>>>
>>> http://206.103.49.193/pitts/htm/pitt140.htm
>>>
>>> http://206.103.49.193/pitts/htm/pitt114.htm
>>>
>>> http://206.103.49.193/pitts/htm/pitt122.htm
>>>
>>> http://206.103.49.193/pitts/htm/pitt127.htm -- tape pulled loose here!!
>>>
>>>
>>> Coverings of metal *may* have been placed over the screening but 
>>> don't know if it was the 17s, 1600, or 1630 -- Probably None Of 
>>> These.       Seems I saw a reference to such but not a clear memory.
>>>
>>> The small air scoops fore and aft on the 16s and 15s were regularly 
>>> covered in winter In The East End but Not in the South Hills -- 
>>> donut know why that is! Don't know about North -- didn't go over 
>>> there much.
>>>
>>>
>>> Jim__Holland
>>