[PRCo] Re: "Johnstown" trolley at Kenosha

[Fred Schneider]

Tell me Herb ...

What is the condition of the car?  I saw some of those cars on Shaker and they looked pretty damn ratty about 1980 or 1981.  I suspect the body steel was pretty rusty under the paint.  I also remember visiting Toronto in the winter of 1969 and noting that about 2 cars out of 3 were covered in white salt spray ... TTC simply could not wash them fast enough.  And the
washing only got the surface salt ... it missed what was thrown up on the underside of the car and what was deposited in step wells and on the floors.

After having seen what BSM / MTA had to do to the Baltimore 7407, what was done to Pittsburgh 1138 and 1723 and Philly 2723 and what the lads in Brookville did to the Philly cars and finally the "moth eaten" steel on one of the Newark / Twin City cars that is being patched together for Muni, I suspect there was a whole lot of hidden body cancer on those Cleveland
cars.   I would expect the body post caps and the ends of the carlines are probably pretty badly rusted, and that the lower ends of the body posts might be almost non-existent.  When the Baltimore museum car was torn apart, only one body post on the entire left side was not rusted off at the bottom.

If you look at Minnesota Transportation Museum's web site, you will get some idea what the TCRT 322 looked like under the skin when it arrived from Shaker Heights.

Of course none of this is criticism of the PCC.  Its design life was 20 years and I'm talking about the condition of cars that are more than 50 years out of the box.

Fred III

hrbran99 at adelphia.net wrote:

> Cleveland Transit System PCC Car 4223:
>
> Delivered to CTS between June and August, 1946, operated out of Brooklyn Station on West 25th Street lines. Ended Cleveland service April 27, 1953. Shipped to TTC later in 1953. Returned to Cleveland August 15, 1978 for Shaker Rapid service. Was TTC 4648. Was first (lead) car on "Welcome Home" run signifying its return to Cleveland rail service. Sold to IRM 1982.
> HerB
>
> ---- Ken & Tracie <ktjosephson at earthlink.net> wrote:
> . IRM also has an ex-Cleveland PCC
> > (a Pullman, Cleveland Transit System 4223.) I do not know if the
> > ex-Cleveland car came directly from the TTC or if it was one of the cars
> > sent to Shaker Heights from Toronto. I seem to remember reading in "Rail and
> > Wire" that 4223 was receiving extensive sheet metal replacement.
> >
> > > K.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Swindler" <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
> > To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> > Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 1:28 PM
> >
> >
> > > Is Illinois Ry Museum rebuilding an ex. Cleveland PCC car from CTS via
> > > TTC,
> > > Shaker?  Or do I have this mixed up with an ex. Kansas City car???
> > >
> > > John
> >
> >
> >