[PRCo] Re: "Johnstown" trolley at Kenosha

[Ken & Tracie]

Was TCRT one of the cars that came to SHRT from Newark? Or was it one of the 
cars which went directly from TCRT to SHRT?

I read that the Cleveland PCC at IRM needed extensive steel replacement. 
Again, I'll cc this to Scott Greig to try to get a confirmation about this.

I would guess that the best place to find a solid American PCC body would be 
El Paso.... :-)

K.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fred Schneider" <fschnei at supernet.com>
To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 1:14 PM
Subject: [PRCo] Re: "Johnstown" trolley at Kenosha


> Tell me Herb ...
>
> What is the condition of the car?  I saw some of those cars on Shaker and 
> they looked pretty damn ratty about 1980 or 1981.  I suspect the body 
> steel was pretty rusty under the paint.  I also remember visiting Toronto 
> in the winter of 1969 and noting that about 2 cars out of 3 were covered 
> in white salt spray ... TTC simply could not wash them fast enough.  And 
> the
> washing only got the surface salt ... it missed what was thrown up on the 
> underside of the car and what was deposited in step wells and on the 
> floors.
>
> After having seen what BSM / MTA had to do to the Baltimore 7407, what was 
> done to Pittsburgh 1138 and 1723 and Philly 2723 and what the lads in 
> Brookville did to the Philly cars and finally the "moth eaten" steel on 
> one of the Newark / Twin City cars that is being patched together for 
> Muni, I suspect there was a whole lot of hidden body cancer on those 
> Cleveland
> cars.   I would expect the body post caps and the ends of the carlines are 
> probably pretty badly rusted, and that the lower ends of the body posts 
> might be almost non-existent.  When the Baltimore museum car was torn 
> apart, only one body post on the entire left side was not rusted off at 
> the bottom.
>
> If you look at Minnesota Transportation Museum's web site, you will get 
> some idea what the TCRT 322 looked like under the skin when it arrived 
> from Shaker Heights.
>
> Of course none of this is criticism of the PCC.  Its design life was 20 
> years and I'm talking about the condition of cars that are more than 50 
> years out of the box.
>
> Fred III
>
> hrbran99 at adelphia.net wrote:
>
>> Cleveland Transit System PCC Car 4223:
>>
>> Delivered to CTS between June and August, 1946, operated out of Brooklyn 
>> Station on West 25th Street lines. Ended Cleveland service April 27, 
>> 1953. Shipped to TTC later in 1953. Returned to Cleveland August 15, 1978 
>> for Shaker Rapid service. Was TTC 4648. Was first (lead) car on "Welcome 
>> Home" run signifying its return to Cleveland rail service. Sold to IRM 
>> 1982.
>> HerB
>>
>> ---- Ken & Tracie <ktjosephson at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> . IRM also has an ex-Cleveland PCC
>> > (a Pullman, Cleveland Transit System 4223.) I do not know if the
>> > ex-Cleveland car came directly from the TTC or if it was one of the 
>> > cars
>> > sent to Shaker Heights from Toronto. I seem to remember reading in 
>> > "Rail and
>> > Wire" that 4223 was receiving extensive sheet metal replacement.
>> >
>> > > K.
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "John Swindler" <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
>> > To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
>> > Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 1:28 PM
>> >
>> >
>> > > Is Illinois Ry Museum rebuilding an ex. Cleveland PCC car from CTS 
>> > > via
>> > > TTC,
>> > > Shaker?  Or do I have this mixed up with an ex. Kansas City car???
>> > >
>> > > John
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
>