[PRCo] Re: PAT School Buses

[John Swindler]

They are not school bus trippers.  They are regularly scheduled routes that 
just happen to operate only one round trip per day, only when schools are 
open.  You will note some of the route numbers on bus stop signs in 
Philadelphia.  I think they are in the 400 series.  Yes, you could ride 
these buses ---- if you were foolish enought to want to prove a point.  
(maybe SEPTA should require "normal" riders wishing to ride these buses to 
first sign a waiver. <gg>)

And yes, it is a charade to get around state law requirements for school 
buses to be painted yellow and have various safety devices.  Also complaints 
from private operators about unfair competition from public entities using 
vehicles bought with govt. funds..

Concerning Trenton-Philadelphia Coach:  That goes back to PTC days.  Had a 
line haul route in Bucks County, and interstate charter rights.  Roster had 
a few intercity buses, but they also leased buses from Frontier Division, 
which was old Schuylkill Valley Transit.  T-P Coach bus garage????  I want 
to say Frankford Depot.  Also, may have been non-union, but again really 
stretching the memory cells.

There were also a couple SEPTA routes into New Jersey to Marlton area, but 
don't recall if they were T-P Coach or ex. Red Arrow.

Back to main question:  By 1970s, private operators not interested in line 
haul service - just happy to have a public authority take over the business 
- but they were interested in making money on charter and school bus 
service.

Also, in some cases, I suspect the authority running the school bus service 
was a way to help the school district control costs. - and local real estate 
taxes.  But never really looked into this.

Concerning PAT, see link in original message.  Also, because PAT was buying 
out the private operators in Allegheny County, who was left to protest PAT 
operation of school buses???

John




>From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>Subject: [PRCo] PAT School Buses
>Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 20:40:33 -0400
>
>Let us ask John Swindler to jump into the fray.
>
>It occurs to me that there were some problems in the early years with
>charters, and school buses constituted a charter,  because UMTA was
>providing Federal support to these agencies and the charter
>operations were funneling this support into a restricted area where
>it no longer served the entire populace.   If I can phrase this a
>different way, UMTA was saying that you cannot use federal support to
>run a charter (and since we gave you the bus or the trolley, that's
>federal support).   I recall that SEPTA kept an independent company
>called Trenton-Philadelphia Coach Company to handle all charters, and
>its operations were supposedly outside of UMTA grants.   Here in
>Lancaster, Pennsylvania, Red Rose Transit Authority took over the
>fixed routes inside Lancaster County of the Conestoga Transportation
>Company while leaving CTC with its charter business, the school
>buses, and I think they were still running York - Lancaster buses to
>connect with trains at Lancaster (although these may have disappeared
>with Amtrak in 1971).
>
>John:   So if SEPTA and RRTA had to jump through hoops, how did PAT
>get away with running school buses?  Was it legal?   Was it the 500
>pound gorilla technique?
>
>fws
>
>On Oct 2, 2005, at 6:43 PM, Bill Robb wrote:
>
> > Apparently PAT inherited school runs from the
> > independent operators as well as school buses:
> >
> > http://www.amcap.org/monthlyfeature/200509/index.shtml
> >
> > I recall added on lights on some places like New
> > Jersey and Boston so transit buses could do school
> > service, but I believe this is now illegal.
> >
> > Bill Robb
> >
> > --- Mark McGuire <macmarka at netzero.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>   More memories, Ken!
> >>
> >>  I used to ride one of the old GMs to grade
> >> school(Julia Ward Howe).
> >> The PAT bus would pick us up right up the street and
> >> would make a few
> >> stops on the way to St. Winifred and Howe schools. I
> >> don't recall
> >> paying a fare so maybe the parents got together to
> >> charter bus service
> >> for their children. Probably 20 kids rode the buses
> >> to and from
> >> school. I loved the old GM buses but remember riding
> >> the fishbowls
> >> also. Once in a blue moon we would get one of my
> >> favorites, a GM
> >> shortie bus with AC unit(the 1800 series numbers I
> >> believe). We had
> >> great times riding the PAT buses to school in the
> >> mornings and afternoons. Thanks again for the
> >> memories, Ken. Even though I was
> >> more of a trolley fan in my youth.
> >>
> >>                            Mark
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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>