[PRCo] Re: PCC2 septa

[Fred Schneider]

I would have to believe that cars ceased to be PCCs when  Transit  
Research Corporation was dissolved as an engineering firm and rolled  
into the Institute for Rapid Transit, a lobbying firm, which was  
subsequently incorporated into the American Public Transportation  
Association (APTA), also a lobbying association.  Once we moved out  
of engineering and into manipulating government actions, the original  
purpose of the ERPCC was lost.  I would also want to believe that any  
new cars ceased to be PCCs at this time because the patents were  
thrown into the public domain.   This was done simply because the  
royalties off vehicle sales were no longer sufficient to support the  
organization.

There is, however, no doubt in my mind that the PCC served as a  
worldwide platform from which railway apparatus continuously  
evolved.   The Electric Railway Presidents' Conference Committee and  
Transit Research Corporation were there to produce vehicles that met  
the needs of the time.  The needs today are not for vehicles without  
air-conditioning nor are they for single cars because of the  
inherently high labor costs of a single vehicle.  Therefore, one has  
to believe that TRC today would be licensing articulated, air- 
conditioned cars.   Would they have AC motors?  Probably, because  
they require a lower maintenance standard.   Would the bodies be the  
same today?  I doubt it because urban condition suggest that  
unbreakable windows are necessary while air-conditioning suggests a  
mandate for insulation and tinted glass.   The availability of  
government money allowed something that should have been done 75  
years ago ... complete rewiring of systems for pantographs.   I would  
also speculate that in the same manner that automobiles have become a  
international operation, transit would have to.  And it has.  The PCC  
was just heading in that direction but there was no organization to  
continue it and thus the development was left to Düwag, BN and other  
European builders.

So if TRC had been able to survive (and that's an academic argument),  
the product would have been totally different than the 1952 car for  
San Francisco.

And you can't provoke an argument here because the Canal cars (when  
and if they run again), are simply a modern car in a body styled to  
look antique.

On Sep 9, 2005, at 5:38 AM, James B. Holland wrote:

> Fred Schneider wrote:
>
>
>> If you want to pick nits, the Transit Research Corporation defended
>> vigorously their truck patents. These cars do not have PCC trucks.
>> Therefore some might say that they are not even PCC cars but simply
>> look alikes. As much PCC as the alleged Birneys in Little Rock,
>> Memphis and Tampa are Birneys (without any of the normal safety
>> appliances).
>>
>> FWS
>>
>
>
>
> Just For The Purpose Of Discussion.......
>
> A person on another list adamantly defends the position that the
> *-New-*  New Orleans cars and the Philly PCC2s  *-Are-*  PCCs  --   
> then
> went into a discourse that these vehicles are in the evolutionary line
> of the PCC and actually mentioned lrvs in the same sentence.       One
> could then retort that the so-called lrvs are Also In The Evolutionary
> Line Of The PCC  --  so why aren't  lrvs  called PCCs?
>
> After all, as you and Carlson make clear with the 2-page chart in PCC
> Car That Fought Back  (pgs.56-57)  the PCC is in the evolutionary line
> of the standard old Trolleycars, and one used for comparison was  
> the NO
> 900s!!!!!!!
>
> There Is A Point,  HowSomeEver,  where A Line Is Crossed and a vehicle
> is no longer a PCC    ----    just as the PCC was no longer the  
> standard
> old car    ----    this may have happened with the septa PCC2s  --
> ((and the NO NewBuilds with PCC-Like trucks but New Orleans Perly  
> Thomas
> Look-Alike bodies.))       AC instead of DC motors; *-new-*  truck
> design;  solid state controls.       Body  IS  refurbished from  
> true PCC.
>
> ALL  Are  TrolleyCars!
>
>
>
> Jim__Holland
>
>
> I__Like__Ike.......And__PCCs!!
>
> down with pantographs ---- UP___WITH___TROLLEYPOLES!!!!!!!
>
>
>