[PRCo] Re: Heaters

[Dietrich, Robert J.]

I always thought that kerosene heaters were standard fare at all
cold-weather museums.  Use it to heat the car while standing still, run
it back into the shop when the car moves.  That way everyone gets some
heat but no one gets enough, so while no one is happy there is always an
excuse at hand.

-----Original Message-----
From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
[mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf Of Jim
Holland
Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 4:37 PM
To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
Subject: [PRCo] Re: Heaters

We have been through this before  --  in Noah's Arkives on this list  
--  interurbans to Char Wash had longer runs without braking where Much 
of the heat comes from thus the extra heat.       Do NOT remember a 
heating problem in winter except one time on Drake with Charlie Diehl  
--  long run outbound on last single track section to loop in PM rush in

cold weather, leaky doors, and it was cold.       Remember Many times on

city cars when they were too warm.
.
PCCs not built for Museum service  --  Pittsburgh seemed to do just fine

but cars are moving continuously as compared to museums.       Museums 
didn't often operate in the winter in the past.
.
.
Fred Schneider wrote:
.

> Boris:
>
> If, as you assume, the city cars had enough heat at 10 kw to be 
> adequate if they were not running, then why did the interurban cars 
> require twice as many heaters? I rest my case.
>
> fws

.
.
.
Boris Cefer wrote:
.

> Schematic diagram says 20 kilowatts on interurban cars and 10 
> kilowatts on city cars. Considering the fact that large portion of air

> is drawn by the MG set from the interior, this output must be 
> sufficient - IF all the heating elements are functional.
>
> B
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Fred Schneider" <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>
>> Supplemental doesn't mean enough heat to keep a car warm in museum 
>> duty ... it only means enough extra heat for northern climates for a 
>> PCC running a normal duty cycle.
>>
>> Remember, a PCC was heated by the heat from the accelerating / 
>> braking resistors. When a car accelerates on resistance (the first 
>> few seconds out of a stop) or brakes, then heat is put into the car. 
>> That is adequate in Washington DC or Birmingham AL or Dallas TX. It 
>> wasn't sufficient in Pittsburgh or Minneapolis or Toronto so 
>> additional heaters were added. But it was still assumed that the car 
>> would be operated and that resistors would provide some heat.
>>
>> If the car sits around during the day in a trolley museum, and 
>> accelerates for a few seconds every hour, the supplemental heaters 
>> won't keep the car warm and the resistance heating isn't going to be 
>> adequate either.
>>
>> On Aug 2, 2006, at 1:43 PM, Boris Cefer wrote:
>>
>>> 1711 has supplemental heaters in side ducts. I saw them in a photo 
>>> when it was repaired in Elmira several years back.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Fred Schneider" <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>>>
>>>> The 1700 at PTM is a pain in a museum environment. You can't have a

>>>> decent conversation with the passengers without turning off the 
>>>> fans, and, of course, if you turn off the fans, no air moves. It's 
>>>> a nice spring and fall car. It's horrid in the summer. And, as with

>>>> PCCs, I don't think it has any supplemental heating so that it 
>>>> heats in the winter only when accelerating or braking. So it isn't 
>>>> a good winter museum car either.
>>>