[PRCo] Re: Heaters-_And-_-Seats

Jim Holland prcopcc at p-r-co.com
Fri Aug 4 17:25:50 EDT 2006


Fred Schneider wrote:
.
> And many PCCs had heaters under the dash for the operators.       Even 
> in that era they were treated separately from the comfort of the 
> passengers.

.
Again, Noah's Arkives has this information for PRCo - we discussed this 
before.
.
.

> If we were to go back farther, however, and this is for the education 
> of some of the younger members on the list, transit companies often 
> felt compulsion to warm neither the passengers nor the crew.

.
Yes  --  very much aware of this and Glad  :You:  mentioned it here  --  
Seems those Older cars would be Worse at Museums than PCCs  --  
heatwise.       Yes, everything evolves  (except Man)  and that includes 
heating.
.
.

> .......So 50 degrees in a car was warm.   And we pay the crew so they 
> can bloody well accept what we give them.

.
Theory of relativity  --  In A Sense!!!       Relative to 20 degrees 
outside, 50 is warm.       For a short spell, this is fine, but for any 
distance 50 degrees Will Be Cold & Unhealthy  --  PERIOD.
.
.

> .......Again URE felt there was no reason to make its motormen 
> comfortable on rainy or cold days. We pay them to work. Why should we 
> also make them comfortable. That didn't change until the PSC ordered 
> comfort.

.
Good  ::And__Typical::  Corporate Position  --  but comfort is Not the 
Issue  --  HEALTH  is the issue.       The employee is there for 8 
hours  --  as already mentioned, 50 degrees Relative to 20 is warm For A 
Spell, but Not for 8 hours.
.
I--F    Comfort is  ::The__Reason::  that heat and shelter from the 
elements were provided to employees by Management in the early 1900s, 
then Management is All The More Despicable.       Adds to the dimension 
of the formation of Unions!
.
Same thing is said of the Driver / Operators seats  --  Drivers / Ops 
want to be spoiled with comfy cushy seats.       In the 1980s I had a 
Flyer Trolley Coach where I could not make a smooth brake application  
--  absolutely drove me nuts  (Flyers were nice coaches and smooth 
braking was a hallmark.)       Wrote it up on my defect card.       Seat 
was not    *--__Comfortable__--*   as management would say so I fiddled 
considerably with it  --  jacked the back up under a channel angle on 
the enclosure so the seat back had more slope backwards, propped up the 
front with a wheel block so it would have a little more slope, then 
covered the seat with a dozen or more  Micro  Times  (a free and very 
thick  (in those days)  Computer Magazine)  to bring the height up to 
par.       Violins!       Problem with brake application   
DISAPPEARED    ----    I was able to make a smooth brake application as 
usual.       This procedure caused wear of the seat back but it 
alleviated back problems  --  I was Far From The Only Driver doing 
this.       Muni solved the problem  --  fill the channel bar so this 
couldn't be done,  BUT    BY    ALL    MEANS,      :::DON'T:::    FIX    
THE    SEAT!       Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    
Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    
Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    
Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    
Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    
Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    
Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    
Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    
Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    
Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    
Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    
Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    
Very    Very    Very    Very    Very    TYPICAL    Management  position, 
at least here at Muni.
.
This goes to the 10%__Theory!       Investors say that if one can  
AVERAGE  a 10% annual return Over Time that this is  
:::Extremely___Good!!!:::       Some years more, some years less, but an 
Average of 10% return Annually.       Lettuce apply that elsewhere:::::::
.
If the Body Temperature rises or falls 10%  (98.6  ++  9.9  ==  108.7)  
You Are Going To  DIE  unless you get absolutely immediate 
attention.       Extreme example, but it serves a point, doesn't it???!!!
.
Applied to the seat above, the body has a 10% window within which it 
functions very efficiently  --  outside that it will still function  --  
I could still apply the brakes but not smoothly.       We could go on 
and on with these comparisons.
.
Present seats in the ETI Trolley coaches are    :::THE___WORST:::    
seat I have sat on in my life  --  knew that the first time I sat in one 
in 1998  --  didn't say anything because   
:::Brilliant___Muni___Management:::    hears Comfy__Cushy!!       These 
seats  :::Totally__Lack::  any support for the back.       Within One 
Hour it causes   PAIN   in my back just below the shoulder blades, and I 
am on the coach for 10-hours straight  --  this is Not lower back.       
Seat is produced by  USSC Group, Conshocken, PA 19428    ----    am 
writing to Congress people And Others to make a case that the seat is 
Criminal Neglect By Design  --  it looks super fancy dancy which means 
they can charge a hefty price but it is a seat only because it has that 
general shape and is placed in a position where a seat is needed.       
USSC  knows that it is dealing with a bunch of  Idiots  who purchase 
these seats  --  Govt contract, big bucks, idiot purchasers  --  what a 
sweet deal!!       USSC  saw a Sucker coming in Muni, A Big All Day 
Sucker!!!       Don't want my Tax Money spent on this garbage.
..
..
..

>> TEP wrote:
>> .
>>
>>> .......but the reality is that in cold weather passengers dress for 
>>> it -- as should the operator.
>>
>> .On Aug 4, 2006, at 5:40 AM, Jim Holland wrote:
>> Yes, Ops dress for cold weather but Do Not wear their overcoat while 
>> operating -- sweater maybe, but not a jacket -- too encumbering 
>> otherwise. Even here in SF we have cab heat for op platform separate 
>> from car heater on all our equipment.
>> .
>> .
>>
>>> The car takes a while to warm up and could be on the chilly side 
>>> between pulling out of the yard and getting warmed up by rush hour 
>>> passengers, it will be fine thereafter.
>>
>> .
>> Not At All Unlike the PCC -- in South Hills, cars dragged the brakes 
>> down through the tunnel in the PM rush to warm them up and soon after 
>> they filled up with passengers. A little different in the AM rush.
>> .
>> .
>>
>>> There is nothing worse than being stuck in a sealed car with failed 
>>> air conditioning, shades of the 1700s that I frequently rode in the 
>>> Pittsburgh summers of the 1960s.
>>
>> .
>> Can only remember one time when cold on a PCC in Pittsburgh in the 
>> winter, and that was the Drake trip with Charlie that I already 
>> related. Can only remember one time in the summer when the heat got 
>> to me on a 17 -- was on my way to Grandparents house in Homewood in 
>> the latter 1950s, on the 88 outbound, someone had a portable radio 
>> and if I heard it Once I heard it Once Million Times -- """50-million 
>> times a day, at home at work and on the way - everyone Loves 
>> Coca-Cola, everyone loves Coke!""" I was getting light headed from 
>> the heat.
>> .
>> The 17s were My Favorite Car - on the Interurbans All The Time 
>> because that is what they ran - can only remember less than half 
>> dozen trips on a 16 on the Interurban, and most of them in ({[pat]}) 
>> days.  If I knew a 17 was on some line I would sometimes wait for 
>> that car, esp. in the early days when the B2B trucks were intact on 
>> and functioning properly on City Cars -- Absolutely Heavenly ride on 
>> the B2B.
>> .
>> Summer and Winter I would deliver the Sunday morning SnoozePapers As 
>> Early As Possible and then run out and get my Sunday Pass -- I was 
>> usually on an inbound 42 by 6-AM and caught some of the pullouts for 
>> the Interurban - I would return home only for dinner and would then 
>> go back out until 10-PM in the school year and Much Later in the 
>> summer.  Always enjoyed the ride and was very rarely uncomfortable 
>> because of heat or cold.
>> .
>> Not So San Francisco! ALWAYS cold on the PCCs here.  Baby Tens only 
>> had op heater and the draft over rode that. Taped cardboard together 
>> which would fold nicely so I could spread it around the feet to my 
>> right -- that helped. 11s not much better, even though they were 
>> ex-SLPS. Heaters disconnected or needed reverser key to activate. One 
>> group of Proposed PCCs for either MSR or Muni had SCREENS for the 
>> front windshield, NOT glass ---- that would be Kewl Literally at 
>> 40-mph down OR Up through the Twin Peaks Tunnel (which was shut down 
>> from 08-AM til 10-PM Wednesday because of a derailment!!)
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> Jim___Holland
>





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