[PRCo] Re: PRR Federal St. Station & What Dreams May Come

Wed Apr 11 20:15:20 EDT 2007

I still have an issue of Railway Age with map of PA on front with line drawn 
between Pittsburgh and Philadelphia.  The lead-in comment to feature comment 
was:  "are we serious about high speed rail?  You bet we are," said Governor 
Sheaffer.

>From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>Subject: [PRCo] Re: PRR Federal St. Station & What Dreams May Come
>Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:25:59 -0400
>
>We made the mistake of trying to copy what Europeans do without
>understanding that Americans are not Europeans and did not grow up
>with their mindset.   There were hundreds of little pieces of the
>puzzle which we didn't understand.
>
>For example, Americans socialize in their homes.   We have people
>over.   Germans would not think of that ... they would go out to a
>restaurant to socialize or go to a game or go to a park or go
>downtown with their friends on Saturday.
>
>We attempted to add the venue without understanding why the Europeans
>have that venue and why it works for them.
>
>It would be like trying to install a high speed 200 mile an hour
>train from Pittsburgh to Philadelphia without recognizing that we
>have no way to get people from home to the station on one end and
>from the station to destination on the other end.   The Europeans
>have transit on both ends that works.   So do the Japanese.
>
>Sometimes I wish we could force our politicians to sit down in a
>strange place and live there for a year before they try to import
>ideas....
>
>fws
>
>On Apr 11, 2007, at 10:10 AM, Herb Brannon wrote:
>
> > In reading the article on Northside I see they want to return it to
> > something of its original self. A very good idea, and one which I
> > hope is successful. It is indicated that if this plan is adopted,
> > Federal Street would be opened again. Also, and one of the best
> > parts of the plan, is the demolition of a part of Allegheny Center
> > Mall.
> >
> >   As a personal comment, before I get to my main point, I believe
> > both the rebuilding (meaning destruction) of Northside and East
> > Liberty were part of the Robert Moses (the "sacred cow" architect
> > who made parts of New York City into crime ridden shoebox-tenement
> > districts through his right-wing brand of urban renewal) plan which
> > he drew up for Pittsburgh way back 'in the day.'
> >
> >   However, here is another chance for an operating Pittsburgh
> > Railways trolley museum ! PATransit is (or was) extending the light
> > rail system over to Northside somewhere in the area of the
> > stadiums. Now, if the Northside area is returned to something of
> > its former self a nice connector from the end of the LRV line into
> > the Northside/Allegheny City center als McKinney Street Transit
> > Authority in Dallas would be excellent. Any comments?
> >
> >   For the list member who mentioned it in this thread, yes, the PCC
> > cars can be heard on the city streets of Pittsburgh again.
> > Bob Rathke <bobrathke at comcast.net> wrote:
> >   I checked some old PRR timetables, and it appears that the
> > Federal St.
> > Station building (later the Studebaker dealership) was off the east-
> > west
> > schedules by 1950.
> > However, the Pittsburgh-Cleveland trains still stopped at the
> > Federal St.
> > platforms until 1955, and the Pittsburgh area commuter trains
> > stopped there
> > as late as 1964. (In 1951, the PRR operated six round trip trains a
> > day
> > between Pittsburgh and Cleveland.) Attached is a photo that I took
> > on the
> > Federal St. Station platform in June, 1957. The view is to the
> > east, and
> > the Federal Tire Co. store is visible on the east side of Federal
> > St. along
> > the north side of the tracks. At that time, acess to the platforms was
> > through a staircase off Federal St. under the tracks.
> >
> > Like Amtrak service to major cities today, the PRR had major
> > "suburuban"
> > stops on its mainlines to Pittsburgh:
> > New York line trains stopped at East Liberty, St. Louis line trains
> > stopped
> > at Carnegie, and Chicago line trains stopped at Sewickley.
> >
> > Bob 4/10/07
> >
> > -----------------------------
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bob Rathke"
> > To:
> >
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 5:55 PM
> > Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny
> >
> >
> >> Boggs & Buhl closed in 1958. In the 1940's and 50's they operated
> >> a train
> >> ride in the toy department at Christmas and Easter - an electric 1
> >> ft.
> >> guage
> >> B&O streamliner. I've often wondered what happened to that train
> >> after
> >> the
> >> store closed
> >>
> >> Federal St. was still stop on the PRR up to the time the commuter
> >> trains
> >> were discontinued in the Fall of 1964. I'm not sure when the
> >> Federal St.
> >> Station building cesased being a station, but I remember the auto
> >> dealer
> >> that took over the building - Reed Studebaker, I believe.
> >>
> >> Bob 4/10/07
> >>
> >> -----------------------------
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Fred Schneider"
> >> To:
> >
> >> Cc: "Dennis Lamont"
> >> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 10:33 PM
> >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny
> >>
> >>
> >>> I guess we all have our memories of the Nor'side.
> >>>
> >>> My Grandma Rebele lived off the 3400 block of Perrysville Avenue
> >>> so I
> >>> have my memories of the former City of Allegheny too. In fact, as
> >>> long as Grandma lived, the lower Nor'side in her mind was still
> >>> Allegheny. She never adopted the word Pittsburgh. But then she
> >>> was married to my Grandpa and moved from Pittsburgh to Allegheny
> >>> before it was annexed to the larger city.
> >>>
> >>> My Great Grandpa Rebele, whom I never knew, lived at 1439 Sandusky
> >>> Street in a house that, surprisingly, still exists near Allegheny
> >>> General Hospital. I've had conversations with a waitress of German
> >>> ancestry, Jean Cerra, in Max's Allegheny Tavern who remembered tales
> >>> about how her relatives were forced to lie about their ancestry in
> >>> order to enroll their son (her grandfather or father) into a
> >>> parochial school on the Northside. No German's were desired in that
> >>> neighborhood at that time because it was for English people. The
> >>> Germans, like my Great Grandfather and hers, lived in the triangle
> >>> between the rivers after the War Between the States. Eventually
> >>> much of that part of the north shore the river and Troy Hill became
> >>> German but not without protest.
> >>>
> >>> My memories of the 1950s when I was running around the Northside was
> >>> a of quasi-vibrant but declining area with a market at Ohio and
> >>> Federal Streets. Pittsburgh Railways still maintained an house on
> >>> Sandusky Streets north of East Ohio Street with the line / inclines
> >>> department on the first floor (Charles Shauck was the superindent in
> >>> my era) and the track engineering department was on the second
> >>> floor. Shauck dragged me around to some wonderful places to eat in
> >>> the market after, he claimed, I'd dumped all my money in company
> >>> fare
> >>> boxes.
> >>>
> >>> Allegheny had its own department store. Boggs and Buhl survived
> >>> until 1957 I think. Ed Lybarger could fill you in on the details:
> >>> one of the original founders of the store was one of the founders of
> >>> the Pittsburgh, Harmony, Butler and New Castle Railway as well as
> >>> one
> >>> of the land development schemes up north near Warrendale. I
> >>> remember the story that my uncle took his two daughters in to outfit
> >>> them for school during the grand going out of business sale and the
> >>> store forgot to send the bill.
> >>>
> >>> The Garden Theater degenerated in later years to an X-rated venue on
> >>> North Avenue. That part of Allegheny became rather nondescript.
> >>> My grandmother and mother used to worry about me if I was waiting
> >>> for
> >>> an 8 car down at Federal Street and North Avenue.
> >>>
> >>> I can also recall when the Pennsylvania Railroad was tearing down
> >>> its
> >>> grand castle of a station on Federal Street ... also known as the
> >>> Fort Wayne Station. At one time the PRR station on the North Side
> >>> was a base for some trains starting there and heading west. It was
> >>> also a starting point for some trains that went east via the
> >>> Allegheny and Connemaugh River lines to Johnstown. I'm not sure
> >>> when the waiting room closed and it just became a non-agency stop
> >>> for
> >>> commuter trains ... probably even before World War II. I remember
> >>> it as a Studebaker dealer. Then in 1954 I took some 35mm negatives
> >>> of it being dismantled.
> >>>
> >>> But I remember the Northside as a city ... blocks this way and
> >>> blocks
> >>> that way filled with buildings. The last time I drove through there
> >>> a few months ago I was suddenly struck by a totally different
> >>> impression. It was one of how many blocks of buildings had been
> >>> bulldozed away in order to build the East Street Expressway, the
> >>> Crosstown Expressway and the I-279 Expressway. Perhaps 20 square
> >>> blocks of buildings vanished. And as the link Boris posted pointed
> >>> out, the heart and soul is gone thanks to the loop around the middle
> >>> of it. Just restoring transit to the middle of Federal Street and
> >>> East Ohio Street won't change anything ... the market is gone.
> >>> Sears Roebuck is gone. The Carnegie Library is empty. The
> >>> shoppers are out at the mall off McKnight Road. A small number who
> >>> are captive may still be downtown because they have no automobile to
> >>> take them to the mall.
> >>>
> >>> But, if you drive out East Ohio Street, between East Commons (we
> >>> used
> >>> to call it Sandusky Street) and East Street) there are still a
> >>> couple
> >>> of blocks of stores reminiscent of old Pittsburgh including ... get
> >>> this guys ... a camera store and an Isalys. I've added a link to a
> >>> google map showing that area today.
> >>>
> >>> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Federal+Street+at+North
> >>> +Ave.,
> >>> +Pittsburgh,
> >>> +PA&layer=&sll=32.442523,-87.032472&sspn=0.098367,0.148659&ie=UTF8&z
> >>> =16&
> >>> ll=40.452123,-
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> 80.006669&spn=0.011087,0.018582&om=1On Mon, 9 Apr 2007, Boris Cefer
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> http://www.newcolonist.com/finding_allegheny.html
> >>>>
> >>>> There's an exhibit in the Heinz Architecture Hall at the Carnegie
> >>>> Museum
> >>>> of Art which suggests other ways Allegheny might be revitalized.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below --
> > -- Type: image/jpeg
> > -- Size: 49k (50646 bytes)
> > -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/
> > PRR9812FedSt0657.jpg
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Herb Brannon
> >
> >
>
>

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