[PRCo] Re: PRR Federal St. Station & What Dreams May Come

Wed Apr 11 20:18:32 EDT 2007

Right on.   And maybe someday they'll they'll find the bucks to  
replace the contact wire that Amtrak announced was fixed when  
electric operation resumed east of Harrisburg last October.

On Apr 11, 2007, at 8:15 PM, John Swindler wrote:

>
>
> I still have an issue of Railway Age with map of PA on front with  
> line drawn
> between Pittsburgh and Philadelphia.  The lead-in comment to  
> feature comment
> was:  "are we serious about high speed rail?  You bet we are," said  
> Governor
> Sheaffer.
>
>
>
>> From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: PRR Federal St. Station & What Dreams May Come
>> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:25:59 -0400
>>
>> We made the mistake of trying to copy what Europeans do without
>> understanding that Americans are not Europeans and did not grow up
>> with their mindset.   There were hundreds of little pieces of the
>> puzzle which we didn't understand.
>>
>> For example, Americans socialize in their homes.   We have people
>> over.   Germans would not think of that ... they would go out to a
>> restaurant to socialize or go to a game or go to a park or go
>> downtown with their friends on Saturday.
>>
>> We attempted to add the venue without understanding why the Europeans
>> have that venue and why it works for them.
>>
>> It would be like trying to install a high speed 200 mile an hour
>> train from Pittsburgh to Philadelphia without recognizing that we
>> have no way to get people from home to the station on one end and
>> from the station to destination on the other end.   The Europeans
>> have transit on both ends that works.   So do the Japanese.
>>
>> Sometimes I wish we could force our politicians to sit down in a
>> strange place and live there for a year before they try to import
>> ideas....
>>
>> fws
>>
>> On Apr 11, 2007, at 10:10 AM, Herb Brannon wrote:
>>
>>> In reading the article on Northside I see they want to return it to
>>> something of its original self. A very good idea, and one which I
>>> hope is successful. It is indicated that if this plan is adopted,
>>> Federal Street would be opened again. Also, and one of the best
>>> parts of the plan, is the demolition of a part of Allegheny Center
>>> Mall.
>>>
>>>   As a personal comment, before I get to my main point, I believe
>>> both the rebuilding (meaning destruction) of Northside and East
>>> Liberty were part of the Robert Moses (the "sacred cow" architect
>>> who made parts of New York City into crime ridden shoebox-tenement
>>> districts through his right-wing brand of urban renewal) plan which
>>> he drew up for Pittsburgh way back 'in the day.'
>>>
>>>   However, here is another chance for an operating Pittsburgh
>>> Railways trolley museum ! PATransit is (or was) extending the light
>>> rail system over to Northside somewhere in the area of the
>>> stadiums. Now, if the Northside area is returned to something of
>>> its former self a nice connector from the end of the LRV line into
>>> the Northside/Allegheny City center als McKinney Street Transit
>>> Authority in Dallas would be excellent. Any comments?
>>>
>>>   For the list member who mentioned it in this thread, yes, the PCC
>>> cars can be heard on the city streets of Pittsburgh again.
>>> Bob Rathke <bobrathke at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>   I checked some old PRR timetables, and it appears that the
>>> Federal St.
>>> Station building (later the Studebaker dealership) was off the east-
>>> west
>>> schedules by 1950.
>>> However, the Pittsburgh-Cleveland trains still stopped at the
>>> Federal St.
>>> platforms until 1955, and the Pittsburgh area commuter trains
>>> stopped there
>>> as late as 1964. (In 1951, the PRR operated six round trip trains a
>>> day
>>> between Pittsburgh and Cleveland.) Attached is a photo that I took
>>> on the
>>> Federal St. Station platform in June, 1957. The view is to the
>>> east, and
>>> the Federal Tire Co. store is visible on the east side of Federal
>>> St. along
>>> the north side of the tracks. At that time, acess to the  
>>> platforms was
>>> through a staircase off Federal St. under the tracks.
>>>
>>> Like Amtrak service to major cities today, the PRR had major
>>> "suburuban"
>>> stops on its mainlines to Pittsburgh:
>>> New York line trains stopped at East Liberty, St. Louis line trains
>>> stopped
>>> at Carnegie, and Chicago line trains stopped at Sewickley.
>>>
>>> Bob 4/10/07
>>>
>>> -----------------------------
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Bob Rathke"
>>> To:
>>>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 5:55 PM
>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny
>>>
>>>
>>>> Boggs & Buhl closed in 1958. In the 1940's and 50's they operated
>>>> a train
>>>> ride in the toy department at Christmas and Easter - an electric 1
>>>> ft.
>>>> guage
>>>> B&O streamliner. I've often wondered what happened to that train
>>>> after
>>>> the
>>>> store closed
>>>>
>>>> Federal St. was still stop on the PRR up to the time the commuter
>>>> trains
>>>> were discontinued in the Fall of 1964. I'm not sure when the
>>>> Federal St.
>>>> Station building cesased being a station, but I remember the auto
>>>> dealer
>>>> that took over the building - Reed Studebaker, I believe.
>>>>
>>>> Bob 4/10/07
>>>>
>>>> -----------------------------
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Fred Schneider"
>>>> To:
>>>
>>>> Cc: "Dennis Lamont"
>>>> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 10:33 PM
>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I guess we all have our memories of the Nor'side.
>>>>>
>>>>> My Grandma Rebele lived off the 3400 block of Perrysville Avenue
>>>>> so I
>>>>> have my memories of the former City of Allegheny too. In fact, as
>>>>> long as Grandma lived, the lower Nor'side in her mind was still
>>>>> Allegheny. She never adopted the word Pittsburgh. But then she
>>>>> was married to my Grandpa and moved from Pittsburgh to Allegheny
>>>>> before it was annexed to the larger city.
>>>>>
>>>>> My Great Grandpa Rebele, whom I never knew, lived at 1439 Sandusky
>>>>> Street in a house that, surprisingly, still exists near Allegheny
>>>>> General Hospital. I've had conversations with a waitress of German
>>>>> ancestry, Jean Cerra, in Max's Allegheny Tavern who remembered  
>>>>> tales
>>>>> about how her relatives were forced to lie about their ancestry in
>>>>> order to enroll their son (her grandfather or father) into a
>>>>> parochial school on the Northside. No German's were desired in  
>>>>> that
>>>>> neighborhood at that time because it was for English people. The
>>>>> Germans, like my Great Grandfather and hers, lived in the triangle
>>>>> between the rivers after the War Between the States. Eventually
>>>>> much of that part of the north shore the river and Troy Hill  
>>>>> became
>>>>> German but not without protest.
>>>>>
>>>>> My memories of the 1950s when I was running around the  
>>>>> Northside was
>>>>> a of quasi-vibrant but declining area with a market at Ohio and
>>>>> Federal Streets. Pittsburgh Railways still maintained an house on
>>>>> Sandusky Streets north of East Ohio Street with the line /  
>>>>> inclines
>>>>> department on the first floor (Charles Shauck was the  
>>>>> superindent in
>>>>> my era) and the track engineering department was on the second
>>>>> floor. Shauck dragged me around to some wonderful places to eat in
>>>>> the market after, he claimed, I'd dumped all my money in company
>>>>> fare
>>>>> boxes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Allegheny had its own department store. Boggs and Buhl survived
>>>>> until 1957 I think. Ed Lybarger could fill you in on the details:
>>>>> one of the original founders of the store was one of the  
>>>>> founders of
>>>>> the Pittsburgh, Harmony, Butler and New Castle Railway as well as
>>>>> one
>>>>> of the land development schemes up north near Warrendale. I
>>>>> remember the story that my uncle took his two daughters in to  
>>>>> outfit
>>>>> them for school during the grand going out of business sale and  
>>>>> the
>>>>> store forgot to send the bill.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Garden Theater degenerated in later years to an X-rated  
>>>>> venue on
>>>>> North Avenue. That part of Allegheny became rather nondescript.
>>>>> My grandmother and mother used to worry about me if I was waiting
>>>>> for
>>>>> an 8 car down at Federal Street and North Avenue.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can also recall when the Pennsylvania Railroad was tearing down
>>>>> its
>>>>> grand castle of a station on Federal Street ... also known as the
>>>>> Fort Wayne Station. At one time the PRR station on the North Side
>>>>> was a base for some trains starting there and heading west. It was
>>>>> also a starting point for some trains that went east via the
>>>>> Allegheny and Connemaugh River lines to Johnstown. I'm not sure
>>>>> when the waiting room closed and it just became a non-agency stop
>>>>> for
>>>>> commuter trains ... probably even before World War II. I remember
>>>>> it as a Studebaker dealer. Then in 1954 I took some 35mm negatives
>>>>> of it being dismantled.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I remember the Northside as a city ... blocks this way and
>>>>> blocks
>>>>> that way filled with buildings. The last time I drove through  
>>>>> there
>>>>> a few months ago I was suddenly struck by a totally different
>>>>> impression. It was one of how many blocks of buildings had been
>>>>> bulldozed away in order to build the East Street Expressway, the
>>>>> Crosstown Expressway and the I-279 Expressway. Perhaps 20 square
>>>>> blocks of buildings vanished. And as the link Boris posted pointed
>>>>> out, the heart and soul is gone thanks to the loop around the  
>>>>> middle
>>>>> of it. Just restoring transit to the middle of Federal Street and
>>>>> East Ohio Street won't change anything ... the market is gone.
>>>>> Sears Roebuck is gone. The Carnegie Library is empty. The
>>>>> shoppers are out at the mall off McKnight Road. A small number who
>>>>> are captive may still be downtown because they have no  
>>>>> automobile to
>>>>> take them to the mall.
>>>>>
>>>>> But, if you drive out East Ohio Street, between East Commons (we
>>>>> used
>>>>> to call it Sandusky Street) and East Street) there are still a
>>>>> couple
>>>>> of blocks of stores reminiscent of old Pittsburgh including ...  
>>>>> get
>>>>> this guys ... a camera store and an Isalys. I've added a link to a
>>>>> google map showing that area today.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Federal+Street+at+North
>>>>> +Ave.,
>>>>> +Pittsburgh,
>>>>> +PA&layer=&sll=32.442523,-87.032472&sspn=0.098367,0.148659&ie=UTF8 
>>>>> &z
>>>>> =16&
>>>>> ll=40.452123,-
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 80.006669&spn=0.011087,0.018582&om=1On Mon, 9 Apr 2007, Boris  
>>>>>> Cefer
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.newcolonist.com/finding_allegheny.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There's an exhibit in the Heinz Architecture Hall at the Carnegie
>>>>>> Museum
>>>>>> of Art which suggests other ways Allegheny might be revitalized.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below --
>>> -- Type: image/jpeg
>>> -- Size: 49k (50646 bytes)
>>> -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/
>>> PRR9812FedSt0657.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Herb Brannon
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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