[PRCo] Re: PRR Federal St. Station & What Dreams May Come

Wed Apr 11 22:53:14 EDT 2007

A couple of years go I was in Harrisburg and asked a worker in the station 
if they still run electric locomotives there.  He replied that Amtrak sends 
out an electric locomotive about onc a year "to clean the dirt off the 
overhead wires."

Bob 4/11/07
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fred Schneider" <fwschneider at comcast.net>
To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 7:18 PM
Subject: [PRCo] Re: PRR Federal St. Station & What Dreams May Come

> Right on.   And maybe someday they'll they'll find the bucks to
> replace the contact wire that Amtrak announced was fixed when
> electric operation resumed east of Harrisburg last October.
>
> On Apr 11, 2007, at 8:15 PM, John Swindler wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I still have an issue of Railway Age with map of PA on front with
>> line drawn
>> between Pittsburgh and Philadelphia.  The lead-in comment to
>> feature comment
>> was:  "are we serious about high speed rail?  You bet we are," said
>> Governor
>> Sheaffer.
>>
>>
>>
>>> From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>>> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: PRR Federal St. Station & What Dreams May Come
>>> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:25:59 -0400
>>>
>>> We made the mistake of trying to copy what Europeans do without
>>> understanding that Americans are not Europeans and did not grow up
>>> with their mindset.   There were hundreds of little pieces of the
>>> puzzle which we didn't understand.
>>>
>>> For example, Americans socialize in their homes.   We have people
>>> over.   Germans would not think of that ... they would go out to a
>>> restaurant to socialize or go to a game or go to a park or go
>>> downtown with their friends on Saturday.
>>>
>>> We attempted to add the venue without understanding why the Europeans
>>> have that venue and why it works for them.
>>>
>>> It would be like trying to install a high speed 200 mile an hour
>>> train from Pittsburgh to Philadelphia without recognizing that we
>>> have no way to get people from home to the station on one end and
>>> from the station to destination on the other end.   The Europeans
>>> have transit on both ends that works.   So do the Japanese.
>>>
>>> Sometimes I wish we could force our politicians to sit down in a
>>> strange place and live there for a year before they try to import
>>> ideas....
>>>
>>> fws
>>>
>>> On Apr 11, 2007, at 10:10 AM, Herb Brannon wrote:
>>>
>>>> In reading the article on Northside I see they want to return it to
>>>> something of its original self. A very good idea, and one which I
>>>> hope is successful. It is indicated that if this plan is adopted,
>>>> Federal Street would be opened again. Also, and one of the best
>>>> parts of the plan, is the demolition of a part of Allegheny Center
>>>> Mall.
>>>>
>>>>   As a personal comment, before I get to my main point, I believe
>>>> both the rebuilding (meaning destruction) of Northside and East
>>>> Liberty were part of the Robert Moses (the "sacred cow" architect
>>>> who made parts of New York City into crime ridden shoebox-tenement
>>>> districts through his right-wing brand of urban renewal) plan which
>>>> he drew up for Pittsburgh way back 'in the day.'
>>>>
>>>>   However, here is another chance for an operating Pittsburgh
>>>> Railways trolley museum ! PATransit is (or was) extending the light
>>>> rail system over to Northside somewhere in the area of the
>>>> stadiums. Now, if the Northside area is returned to something of
>>>> its former self a nice connector from the end of the LRV line into
>>>> the Northside/Allegheny City center als McKinney Street Transit
>>>> Authority in Dallas would be excellent. Any comments?
>>>>
>>>>   For the list member who mentioned it in this thread, yes, the PCC
>>>> cars can be heard on the city streets of Pittsburgh again.
>>>> Bob Rathke <bobrathke at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>   I checked some old PRR timetables, and it appears that the
>>>> Federal St.
>>>> Station building (later the Studebaker dealership) was off the east-
>>>> west
>>>> schedules by 1950.
>>>> However, the Pittsburgh-Cleveland trains still stopped at the
>>>> Federal St.
>>>> platforms until 1955, and the Pittsburgh area commuter trains
>>>> stopped there
>>>> as late as 1964. (In 1951, the PRR operated six round trip trains a
>>>> day
>>>> between Pittsburgh and Cleveland.) Attached is a photo that I took
>>>> on the
>>>> Federal St. Station platform in June, 1957. The view is to the
>>>> east, and
>>>> the Federal Tire Co. store is visible on the east side of Federal
>>>> St. along
>>>> the north side of the tracks. At that time, acess to the
>>>> platforms was
>>>> through a staircase off Federal St. under the tracks.
>>>>
>>>> Like Amtrak service to major cities today, the PRR had major
>>>> "suburuban"
>>>> stops on its mainlines to Pittsburgh:
>>>> New York line trains stopped at East Liberty, St. Louis line trains
>>>> stopped
>>>> at Carnegie, and Chicago line trains stopped at Sewickley.
>>>>
>>>> Bob 4/10/07
>>>>
>>>> -----------------------------
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Bob Rathke"
>>>> To:
>>>>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 5:55 PM
>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Boggs & Buhl closed in 1958. In the 1940's and 50's they operated
>>>>> a train
>>>>> ride in the toy department at Christmas and Easter - an electric 1
>>>>> ft.
>>>>> guage
>>>>> B&O streamliner. I've often wondered what happened to that train
>>>>> after
>>>>> the
>>>>> store closed
>>>>>
>>>>> Federal St. was still stop on the PRR up to the time the commuter
>>>>> trains
>>>>> were discontinued in the Fall of 1964. I'm not sure when the
>>>>> Federal St.
>>>>> Station building cesased being a station, but I remember the auto
>>>>> dealer
>>>>> that took over the building - Reed Studebaker, I believe.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob 4/10/07
>>>>>
>>>>> -----------------------------
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Fred Schneider"
>>>>> To:
>>>>
>>>>> Cc: "Dennis Lamont"
>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 10:33 PM
>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess we all have our memories of the Nor'side.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My Grandma Rebele lived off the 3400 block of Perrysville Avenue
>>>>>> so I
>>>>>> have my memories of the former City of Allegheny too. In fact, as
>>>>>> long as Grandma lived, the lower Nor'side in her mind was still
>>>>>> Allegheny. She never adopted the word Pittsburgh. But then she
>>>>>> was married to my Grandpa and moved from Pittsburgh to Allegheny
>>>>>> before it was annexed to the larger city.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My Great Grandpa Rebele, whom I never knew, lived at 1439 Sandusky
>>>>>> Street in a house that, surprisingly, still exists near Allegheny
>>>>>> General Hospital. I've had conversations with a waitress of German
>>>>>> ancestry, Jean Cerra, in Max's Allegheny Tavern who remembered
>>>>>> tales
>>>>>> about how her relatives were forced to lie about their ancestry in
>>>>>> order to enroll their son (her grandfather or father) into a
>>>>>> parochial school on the Northside. No German's were desired in
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> neighborhood at that time because it was for English people. The
>>>>>> Germans, like my Great Grandfather and hers, lived in the triangle
>>>>>> between the rivers after the War Between the States. Eventually
>>>>>> much of that part of the north shore the river and Troy Hill
>>>>>> became
>>>>>> German but not without protest.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My memories of the 1950s when I was running around the
>>>>>> Northside was
>>>>>> a of quasi-vibrant but declining area with a market at Ohio and
>>>>>> Federal Streets. Pittsburgh Railways still maintained an house on
>>>>>> Sandusky Streets north of East Ohio Street with the line /
>>>>>> inclines
>>>>>> department on the first floor (Charles Shauck was the
>>>>>> superindent in
>>>>>> my era) and the track engineering department was on the second
>>>>>> floor. Shauck dragged me around to some wonderful places to eat in
>>>>>> the market after, he claimed, I'd dumped all my money in company
>>>>>> fare
>>>>>> boxes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Allegheny had its own department store. Boggs and Buhl survived
>>>>>> until 1957 I think. Ed Lybarger could fill you in on the details:
>>>>>> one of the original founders of the store was one of the
>>>>>> founders of
>>>>>> the Pittsburgh, Harmony, Butler and New Castle Railway as well as
>>>>>> one
>>>>>> of the land development schemes up north near Warrendale. I
>>>>>> remember the story that my uncle took his two daughters in to
>>>>>> outfit
>>>>>> them for school during the grand going out of business sale and
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> store forgot to send the bill.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Garden Theater degenerated in later years to an X-rated
>>>>>> venue on
>>>>>> North Avenue. That part of Allegheny became rather nondescript.
>>>>>> My grandmother and mother used to worry about me if I was waiting
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> an 8 car down at Federal Street and North Avenue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can also recall when the Pennsylvania Railroad was tearing down
>>>>>> its
>>>>>> grand castle of a station on Federal Street ... also known as the
>>>>>> Fort Wayne Station. At one time the PRR station on the North Side
>>>>>> was a base for some trains starting there and heading west. It was
>>>>>> also a starting point for some trains that went east via the
>>>>>> Allegheny and Connemaugh River lines to Johnstown. I'm not sure
>>>>>> when the waiting room closed and it just became a non-agency stop
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> commuter trains ... probably even before World War II. I remember
>>>>>> it as a Studebaker dealer. Then in 1954 I took some 35mm negatives
>>>>>> of it being dismantled.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I remember the Northside as a city ... blocks this way and
>>>>>> blocks
>>>>>> that way filled with buildings. The last time I drove through
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> a few months ago I was suddenly struck by a totally different
>>>>>> impression. It was one of how many blocks of buildings had been
>>>>>> bulldozed away in order to build the East Street Expressway, the
>>>>>> Crosstown Expressway and the I-279 Expressway. Perhaps 20 square
>>>>>> blocks of buildings vanished. And as the link Boris posted pointed
>>>>>> out, the heart and soul is gone thanks to the loop around the
>>>>>> middle
>>>>>> of it. Just restoring transit to the middle of Federal Street and
>>>>>> East Ohio Street won't change anything ... the market is gone.
>>>>>> Sears Roebuck is gone. The Carnegie Library is empty. The
>>>>>> shoppers are out at the mall off McKnight Road. A small number who
>>>>>> are captive may still be downtown because they have no
>>>>>> automobile to
>>>>>> take them to the mall.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But, if you drive out East Ohio Street, between East Commons (we
>>>>>> used
>>>>>> to call it Sandusky Street) and East Street) there are still a
>>>>>> couple
>>>>>> of blocks of stores reminiscent of old Pittsburgh including ...
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> this guys ... a camera store and an Isalys. I've added a link to a
>>>>>> google map showing that area today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Federal+Street+at+North
>>>>>> +Ave.,
>>>>>> +Pittsburgh,
>>>>>> +PA&layer=&sll=32.442523,-87.032472&sspn=0.098367,0.148659&ie=UTF8
>>>>>> &z
>>>>>> =16&
>>>>>> ll=40.452123,-
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 80.006669&spn=0.011087,0.018582&om=1On Mon, 9 Apr 2007, Boris
>>>>>>> Cefer
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.newcolonist.com/finding_allegheny.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There's an exhibit in the Heinz Architecture Hall at the Carnegie
>>>>>>> Museum
>>>>>>> of Art which suggests other ways Allegheny might be revitalized.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below --
>>>> -- Type: image/jpeg
>>>> -- Size: 49k (50646 bytes)
>>>> -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/
>>>> PRR9812FedSt0657.jpg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Herb Brannon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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