[PRCo] Re: Boggs & Buhl train

[Richard Allman]

intersting bit of history! Guess the pyramids not a union job!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <aprochek at aol.com>
To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 10:26 PM
Subject: [PRCo] Re: Boggs & Buhl train


> sounds good to me.  I always thought it was because after building the 
> pyramids and getting paid peanuts (literally) for it, they said the hell 
> with this and found better lines of work.....
>
> -Alex
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fwschneider at comcast.net
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> Sent: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 10:27 AM
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Boggs & Buhl train
>
> If your interest in our national culture and our people, be they
> Spanish or German or Black or Presbyterian or Anglican or Muslim or
> whatever is as intriguing and interesting to you as it is to me, then
> the following might be worth reading.
>
> Rich replied directly to me and suggested I make the decision whether
> or not to put this on line.  I found his answer interesting ... it's
> totally unrelated to trolleys but it does relate to the settlement or
> population of our cities and our history and I can make a case, I
> guess, for posting it.   Remotely at least it talks about the people
> who rode the trolleys.   His story about why he feels Jewish families
> went into merchandising (community support mechanisms, a tradition of
> finding the right unfilled niche, education above all else, and a
> desire to own property because many came from countries where they
> were forbidden to own land) makes interesting reading.   It also
> reminds me of other groups ... Mormons, Chinese, Indians who have
> also been very successful employing the same techniques.   Ambition
> is an amazing thing ... those who have it succeed, those who don't
> fail and some times groups of people seem to have adapted better than
> other groups.   Bully for them.
>
> So pasted it is Rich's explanation:
>
> "in part because of a tradition of commerce and professions. In part
> because many came to US from areas where they could not own land and
> therefore farming/agriculture were not options. Also, many were in
> marketable trades. My father's family were tailors, clothing
> merchants, and engravers. The culture placed a high value on skills
> and commerce. They came here and bought into "the dream". Unlike
> Irish or Italian immigrants, they didn't get into factory or
> construction work-not sure why-maybe because the Irish and Italians
> already had those jobs. Anaexception was women like my grandmother
> and her sisters who worked in the garment industry and its factories.
> My grandmother's sister witnessed the Triangle Shirt Factory fire and
> subsequently became a militant labor organizer.Further, Jewish
> culture was very get ahead oriented-if not for us then for our
> children. Doing whatever was necessary to be sure their kids could be
> educated and succeed was critical, Most had been artisans in the
> parts of Eastern Europe from which they came. I didn't distribute to
> the entire list, thinking maybe this interested only us two, but you
> may distribute.
>
> "Oh, and another reason. There was a very well developed network for
> immigrant support in the Jewish Community with a strong ethos of
> helping one another-connecting to investors, sources of loan,
> business and word of mouth. the Jewish immigrant community cared for
> itself. My grandmother, not a woman of great means, was still the
> longtime treasurer of HIAS (Hebrew Immigrant Assistance Society ) in
> Boston. It really provided a network for newcomers to get
> established, including finding potential marriagable spouses and
> financial assistance. Helping out one another, especially after
> coming from areas with such habitual oppression, was second nature."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 12, 2007, at 11:01 PM, Fred Schneider wrote:
>
>> And so why ... and you can discuss personally if you want or leave it
>> on list if you think the others are interested (we'll find out), do
>> you feel that so many people of Jewish ancestry / heritage went into
>> the mercantile business?
>>
>> On Apr 12, 2007, at 6:11 PM, Richard Allman wrote:
>>
>>> Philadelphia had a mix of ethnicity in its department store
>>> proprietors.
>>> Gimbels, Frank and Sedar, Snellenbergs', Lit Brothers owned by Jewish
>>> families. John Wanamaker was a Presbyterian merchant and
>>> philanthropist-very
>>> interested in the Sunday School movement. He was also the
>>> Postmaster General
>>> in the administration of President Benjamin Harrison, another
>>> Presbyterian.
>>> Strawbridge and Clothier old Philadelphia Quaker families.My home
>>> sits on a
>>> small fragment of the old Clothier estate.Some were heroic
>>> enterprises,
>>> arising from pushcarts.Sadly, all of the families have vanished
>>> from the
>>> local scene.
>>> RICH: no prejudice. Presbyterian Elder and son of Jewish father!
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Fred Schneider" <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 12:50 PM
>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Boggs & Buhl train
>>>
>>>
>>>> PLEASE GENTLEMAN ... BEFORE YOU READ THIS ... SOME THINGS IN HERE
>>>> MAY
>>>> SMELL OF A PREJUDICE.   I am only commenting on fact.   There is no
>>>> prejudice involved in any way nor do I want there to be.
>>>>
>>>> They made money and they had prestiege.    Most were probably owned
>>>> by local families or partnerships of local families.   I suspect
>>>> that
>>>> many of them were people willing, at least for the first 20 or more
>>>> years, to work 60 to 80 hours a week.   Probably a fairly large
>>>> number were Jewish.
>>>>
>>>> Here in Lancaster we had five major department stores when I moved
>>>> here in 1949.   Hagers was owned by John C. Hager III at that time.
>>>> He lived in a rather secluded home in the woods on the hill behind
>>>> me.   It would be more correct to say he owned one end of the
>>>> hill.    Watt and Shands Department Store was the upper end.   Peter
>>>> Watt got out fairly early.   He owned a huge ornate Victorian
>>>> mansion
>>>> in the west end of town which still stands at Marietta and President
>>>> Avenues with his name on the entrance pillars.  I'm not sure how
>>>> wealthy the Shands were.   Milton T. Garvin owned the lower end
>>>> department store ... he was a Unitarian Universalist and rather
>>>> conservative.   The other two department stores were chains ...
>>>> J. C.
>>>> Penny and Sears Roebuck and Company.
>>>>
>>>> And there was one other local guy who built his very first store
>>>> here
>>>> and then moved on to bigger and better things. His name was Frank W.
>>>> Woolworth.
>>>>
>>>> Derrick ...
>>>>
>>>> You should stop by the library at the Baltimore Streetcar Museum
>>>> on a
>>>> Wednesday when the guys are working in the library and look for Dick
>>>> Hutzler.   His family owned Hutzler's Department Store on Howard
>>>> Street in downtown Baltimore.  My mother spent a fortune there on
>>>> Saturdays in the 1950s and 1960s.   It was probably typical ...
>>>> Jewish family as were most of the stores in Baltimore according to
>>>> Dick.
>>>>
>>>> I think the money was there in retailing as long as the public
>>>> wanted
>>>> and was willing to pay for service.   Once they accepted the slob in
>>>> the box concept of marketing, then all the purveyor of merchandise
>>>> could do is cut his margin and increase the number of stores in
>>>> order
>>>> to make a living.   The family could no longer aspire to have a
>>>> single store and live well off of it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 11, 2007, at 6:44 PM, Derrick J Brashear wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The Boggs mansion is a few blocks from Federal on North. It's a
>>>>> bed&breakfast now. I was in the bar there one night a month or so
>>>>> ago
>>>>> after a play nearby and had a hand in stopping a fire on their
>>>>> porch. In
>>>>> any case, the mansion's pretty nice. I guess being a department
>>>>> store
>>>>> maven meant something then
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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