[PRCo] Re: Boggs & Buhl train

Sat Apr 14 08:39:58 EDT 2007

They didn't build the pyramids.  That was a somewhat local job approx. 1500 
years earlier.  And rather amazing mobilization of labor and material - and 
civil engineering.

>From: aprochek at aol.com
>Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>Subject: [PRCo] Re: Boggs & Buhl train
>Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 22:26:53 -0400
>
>sounds good to me.  I always thought it was because after building the 
>pyramids and getting paid peanuts (literally) for it, they said the hell 
>with this and found better lines of work.....
>
>  -Alex
>-----Original Message-----
>From: fwschneider at comcast.net
>To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>Sent: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 10:27 AM
>Subject: [PRCo] Re: Boggs & Buhl train
>
>If your interest in our national culture and our people, be they
>Spanish or German or Black or Presbyterian or Anglican or Muslim or
>whatever is as intriguing and interesting to you as it is to me, then
>the following might be worth reading.
>
>Rich replied directly to me and suggested I make the decision whether
>or not to put this on line.  I found his answer interesting ... it's
>totally unrelated to trolleys but it does relate to the settlement or
>population of our cities and our history and I can make a case, I
>guess, for posting it.   Remotely at least it talks about the people
>who rode the trolleys.   His story about why he feels Jewish families
>went into merchandising (community support mechanisms, a tradition of
>finding the right unfilled niche, education above all else, and a
>desire to own property because many came from countries where they
>were forbidden to own land) makes interesting reading.   It also
>reminds me of other groups ... Mormons, Chinese, Indians who have
>also been very successful employing the same techniques.   Ambition
>is an amazing thing ... those who have it succeed, those who don't
>fail and some times groups of people seem to have adapted better than
>other groups.   Bully for them.
>
>So pasted it is Rich's explanation:
>
>"in part because of a tradition of commerce and professions. In part
>because many came to US from areas where they could not own land and
>therefore farming/agriculture were not options. Also, many were in
>marketable trades. My father's family were tailors, clothing
>merchants, and engravers. The culture placed a high value on skills
>and commerce. They came here and bought into "the dream". Unlike
>Irish or Italian immigrants, they didn't get into factory or
>construction work-not sure why-maybe because the Irish and Italians
>already had those jobs. Anaexception was women like my grandmother
>and her sisters who worked in the garment industry and its factories.
>My grandmother's sister witnessed the Triangle Shirt Factory fire and
>subsequently became a militant labor organizer.Further, Jewish
>culture was very get ahead oriented-if not for us then for our
>children. Doing whatever was necessary to be sure their kids could be
>educated and succeed was critical, Most had been artisans in the
>parts of Eastern Europe from which they came. I didn't distribute to
>the entire list, thinking maybe this interested only us two, but you
>may distribute.
>
>"Oh, and another reason. There was a very well developed network for
>immigrant support in the Jewish Community with a strong ethos of
>helping one another-connecting to investors, sources of loan,
>business and word of mouth. the Jewish immigrant community cared for
>itself. My grandmother, not a woman of great means, was still the
>longtime treasurer of HIAS (Hebrew Immigrant Assistance Society ) in
>Boston. It really provided a network for newcomers to get
>established, including finding potential marriagable spouses and
>financial assistance. Helping out one another, especially after
>coming from areas with such habitual oppression, was second nature."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On Apr 12, 2007, at 11:01 PM, Fred Schneider wrote:
>
> > And so why ... and you can discuss personally if you want or leave it
> > on list if you think the others are interested (we'll find out), do
> > you feel that so many people of Jewish ancestry / heritage went into
> > the mercantile business?
> >
> > On Apr 12, 2007, at 6:11 PM, Richard Allman wrote:
> >
> >> Philadelphia had a mix of ethnicity in its department store
> >> proprietors.
> >> Gimbels, Frank and Sedar, Snellenbergs', Lit Brothers owned by Jewish
> >> families. John Wanamaker was a Presbyterian merchant and
> >> philanthropist-very
> >> interested in the Sunday School movement. He was also the
> >> Postmaster General
> >> in the administration of President Benjamin Harrison, another
> >> Presbyterian.
> >> Strawbridge and Clothier old Philadelphia Quaker families.My home
> >> sits on a
> >> small fragment of the old Clothier estate.Some were heroic
> >> enterprises,
> >> arising from pushcarts.Sadly, all of the families have vanished
> >> from the
> >> local scene.
> >> RICH: no prejudice. Presbyterian Elder and son of Jewish father!
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Fred Schneider" <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> >> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> >> Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 12:50 PM
> >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Boggs & Buhl train
> >>
> >>
> >>> PLEASE GENTLEMAN ... BEFORE YOU READ THIS ... SOME THINGS IN HERE
> >>> MAY
> >>> SMELL OF A PREJUDICE.   I am only commenting on fact.   There is no
> >>> prejudice involved in any way nor do I want there to be.
> >>>
> >>> They made money and they had prestiege.    Most were probably owned
> >>> by local families or partnerships of local families.   I suspect
> >>> that
> >>> many of them were people willing, at least for the first 20 or more
> >>> years, to work 60 to 80 hours a week.   Probably a fairly large
> >>> number were Jewish.
> >>>
> >>> Here in Lancaster we had five major department stores when I moved
> >>> here in 1949.   Hagers was owned by John C. Hager III at that time.
> >>> He lived in a rather secluded home in the woods on the hill behind
> >>> me.   It would be more correct to say he owned one end of the
> >>> hill.    Watt and Shands Department Store was the upper end.   Peter
> >>> Watt got out fairly early.   He owned a huge ornate Victorian
> >>> mansion
> >>> in the west end of town which still stands at Marietta and President
> >>> Avenues with his name on the entrance pillars.  I'm not sure how
> >>> wealthy the Shands were.   Milton T. Garvin owned the lower end
> >>> department store ... he was a Unitarian Universalist and rather
> >>> conservative.   The other two department stores were chains ...
> >>> J. C.
> >>> Penny and Sears Roebuck and Company.
> >>>
> >>> And there was one other local guy who built his very first store
> >>> here
> >>> and then moved on to bigger and better things. His name was Frank W.
> >>> Woolworth.
> >>>
> >>> Derrick ...
> >>>
> >>> You should stop by the library at the Baltimore Streetcar Museum
> >>> on a
> >>> Wednesday when the guys are working in the library and look for Dick
> >>> Hutzler.   His family owned Hutzler's Department Store on Howard
> >>> Street in downtown Baltimore.  My mother spent a fortune there on
> >>> Saturdays in the 1950s and 1960s.   It was probably typical ...
> >>> Jewish family as were most of the stores in Baltimore according to
> >>> Dick.
> >>>
> >>> I think the money was there in retailing as long as the public
> >>> wanted
> >>> and was willing to pay for service.   Once they accepted the slob in
> >>> the box concept of marketing, then all the purveyor of merchandise
> >>> could do is cut his margin and increase the number of stores in
> >>> order
> >>> to make a living.   The family could no longer aspire to have a
> >>> single store and live well off of it.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Apr 11, 2007, at 6:44 PM, Derrick J Brashear wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> The Boggs mansion is a few blocks from Federal on North. It's a
> >>>> bed&breakfast now. I was in the bar there one night a month or so
> >>>> ago
> >>>> after a play nearby and had a hand in stopping a fire on their
> >>>> porch. In
> >>>> any case, the mansion's pretty nice. I guess being a department
> >>>> store
> >>>> maven meant something then
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
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