[PRCo] Re: Boggs & Buhl train

Sat Apr 14 10:43:13 EDT 2007

THIS IS INCREDIBLE!   A TROLLEY WEB SITE HAS SO CHANGED AND I FIND IT  
SO INTERESTING!

On Apr 14, 2007, at 8:39 AM, John Swindler wrote:

>
> They didn't build the pyramids.  That was a somewhat local job  
> approx. 1500
> years earlier.  And rather amazing mobilization of labor and  
> material - and
> civil engineering.
>
>> From: aprochek at aol.com
>> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Boggs & Buhl train
>> Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 22:26:53 -0400
>>
>> sounds good to me.  I always thought it was because after building  
>> the
>> pyramids and getting paid peanuts (literally) for it, they said  
>> the hell
>> with this and found better lines of work.....
>>
>>  -Alex
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: fwschneider at comcast.net
>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>> Sent: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 10:27 AM
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Boggs & Buhl train
>>
>> If your interest in our national culture and our people, be they
>> Spanish or German or Black or Presbyterian or Anglican or Muslim or
>> whatever is as intriguing and interesting to you as it is to me, then
>> the following might be worth reading.
>>
>> Rich replied directly to me and suggested I make the decision whether
>> or not to put this on line.  I found his answer interesting ... it's
>> totally unrelated to trolleys but it does relate to the settlement or
>> population of our cities and our history and I can make a case, I
>> guess, for posting it.   Remotely at least it talks about the people
>> who rode the trolleys.   His story about why he feels Jewish families
>> went into merchandising (community support mechanisms, a tradition of
>> finding the right unfilled niche, education above all else, and a
>> desire to own property because many came from countries where they
>> were forbidden to own land) makes interesting reading.   It also
>> reminds me of other groups ... Mormons, Chinese, Indians who have
>> also been very successful employing the same techniques.   Ambition
>> is an amazing thing ... those who have it succeed, those who don't
>> fail and some times groups of people seem to have adapted better than
>> other groups.   Bully for them.
>>
>> So pasted it is Rich's explanation:
>>
>> "in part because of a tradition of commerce and professions. In part
>> because many came to US from areas where they could not own land and
>> therefore farming/agriculture were not options. Also, many were in
>> marketable trades. My father's family were tailors, clothing
>> merchants, and engravers. The culture placed a high value on skills
>> and commerce. They came here and bought into "the dream". Unlike
>> Irish or Italian immigrants, they didn't get into factory or
>> construction work-not sure why-maybe because the Irish and Italians
>> already had those jobs. Anaexception was women like my grandmother
>> and her sisters who worked in the garment industry and its factories.
>> My grandmother's sister witnessed the Triangle Shirt Factory fire and
>> subsequently became a militant labor organizer.Further, Jewish
>> culture was very get ahead oriented-if not for us then for our
>> children. Doing whatever was necessary to be sure their kids could be
>> educated and succeed was critical, Most had been artisans in the
>> parts of Eastern Europe from which they came. I didn't distribute to
>> the entire list, thinking maybe this interested only us two, but you
>> may distribute.
>>
>> "Oh, and another reason. There was a very well developed network for
>> immigrant support in the Jewish Community with a strong ethos of
>> helping one another-connecting to investors, sources of loan,
>> business and word of mouth. the Jewish immigrant community cared for
>> itself. My grandmother, not a woman of great means, was still the
>> longtime treasurer of HIAS (Hebrew Immigrant Assistance Society ) in
>> Boston. It really provided a network for newcomers to get
>> established, including finding potential marriagable spouses and
>> financial assistance. Helping out one another, especially after
>> coming from areas with such habitual oppression, was second nature."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 12, 2007, at 11:01 PM, Fred Schneider wrote:
>>
>>> And so why ... and you can discuss personally if you want or  
>>> leave it
>>> on list if you think the others are interested (we'll find out), do
>>> you feel that so many people of Jewish ancestry / heritage went into
>>> the mercantile business?
>>>
>>> On Apr 12, 2007, at 6:11 PM, Richard Allman wrote:
>>>
>>>> Philadelphia had a mix of ethnicity in its department store
>>>> proprietors.
>>>> Gimbels, Frank and Sedar, Snellenbergs', Lit Brothers owned by  
>>>> Jewish
>>>> families. John Wanamaker was a Presbyterian merchant and
>>>> philanthropist-very
>>>> interested in the Sunday School movement. He was also the
>>>> Postmaster General
>>>> in the administration of President Benjamin Harrison, another
>>>> Presbyterian.
>>>> Strawbridge and Clothier old Philadelphia Quaker families.My home
>>>> sits on a
>>>> small fragment of the old Clothier estate.Some were heroic
>>>> enterprises,
>>>> arising from pushcarts.Sadly, all of the families have vanished
>>>> from the
>>>> local scene.
>>>> RICH: no prejudice. Presbyterian Elder and son of Jewish father!
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Fred Schneider" <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>>>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 12:50 PM
>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Boggs & Buhl train
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> PLEASE GENTLEMAN ... BEFORE YOU READ THIS ... SOME THINGS IN HERE
>>>>> MAY
>>>>> SMELL OF A PREJUDICE.   I am only commenting on fact.   There  
>>>>> is no
>>>>> prejudice involved in any way nor do I want there to be.
>>>>>
>>>>> They made money and they had prestiege.    Most were probably  
>>>>> owned
>>>>> by local families or partnerships of local families.   I suspect
>>>>> that
>>>>> many of them were people willing, at least for the first 20 or  
>>>>> more
>>>>> years, to work 60 to 80 hours a week.   Probably a fairly large
>>>>> number were Jewish.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here in Lancaster we had five major department stores when I moved
>>>>> here in 1949.   Hagers was owned by John C. Hager III at that  
>>>>> time.
>>>>> He lived in a rather secluded home in the woods on the hill behind
>>>>> me.   It would be more correct to say he owned one end of the
>>>>> hill.    Watt and Shands Department Store was the upper end.    
>>>>> Peter
>>>>> Watt got out fairly early.   He owned a huge ornate Victorian
>>>>> mansion
>>>>> in the west end of town which still stands at Marietta and  
>>>>> President
>>>>> Avenues with his name on the entrance pillars.  I'm not sure how
>>>>> wealthy the Shands were.   Milton T. Garvin owned the lower end
>>>>> department store ... he was a Unitarian Universalist and rather
>>>>> conservative.   The other two department stores were chains ...
>>>>> J. C.
>>>>> Penny and Sears Roebuck and Company.
>>>>>
>>>>> And there was one other local guy who built his very first store
>>>>> here
>>>>> and then moved on to bigger and better things. His name was  
>>>>> Frank W.
>>>>> Woolworth.
>>>>>
>>>>> Derrick ...
>>>>>
>>>>> You should stop by the library at the Baltimore Streetcar Museum
>>>>> on a
>>>>> Wednesday when the guys are working in the library and look for  
>>>>> Dick
>>>>> Hutzler.   His family owned Hutzler's Department Store on Howard
>>>>> Street in downtown Baltimore.  My mother spent a fortune there on
>>>>> Saturdays in the 1950s and 1960s.   It was probably typical ...
>>>>> Jewish family as were most of the stores in Baltimore according to
>>>>> Dick.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the money was there in retailing as long as the public
>>>>> wanted
>>>>> and was willing to pay for service.   Once they accepted the  
>>>>> slob in
>>>>> the box concept of marketing, then all the purveyor of merchandise
>>>>> could do is cut his margin and increase the number of stores in
>>>>> order
>>>>> to make a living.   The family could no longer aspire to have a
>>>>> single store and live well off of it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 11, 2007, at 6:44 PM, Derrick J Brashear wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The Boggs mansion is a few blocks from Federal on North. It's a
>>>>>> bed&breakfast now. I was in the bar there one night a month or so
>>>>>> ago
>>>>>> after a play nearby and had a hand in stopping a fire on their
>>>>>> porch. In
>>>>>> any case, the mansion's pretty nice. I guess being a department
>>>>>> store
>>>>>> maven meant something then
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _____________________________________________________________________ 
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>
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