[PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to 2/1/07
John Swindler
j_swindler at hotmail.com
Tue Feb 6 12:58:29 EST 2007
Ahhh, yes, London and Northeastern Ry. The Flying Scotman is an A-3 class,
so no need to recreate one of those. And Mallard is preserved at York, for
those who think it proper to preserve a class A-4 steam locomotive that went
126 miles per hour.
I fear, Fred, that we have gotten terribly off topic, with no way to return.
John
>From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to 2/1/07
>Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 11:10:23 -0500
>
>We'll take him by the hand John..... <Rip Snort'n laugh> Sorry
>about that Bob but there are two Angolphyles on this list. (By the
>way John, I understand the contract has been let for the Tornado's
>boiler. For those of you who fail to understand that last crack,
>there was no A-1 Pacific steam locomotive preserved so the
>preservationists in England decided they just needed one for mainline
>steam excursions ... so out come the old blueprints. The frame and
>running gear are finished, so I'm told. That project has been going
>on for probably 20 years now.)
>
>On Feb 6, 2007, at 8:57 AM, John Swindler wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >> From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> >> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to 2/1/07
> >> Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 18:12:45 -0500
> >>
> >> I'm surprised that a computer geek like Bob Dietrich cannot use
> >> Google to figure out in advance how to use RATP and some service from
> >> Charles de Gaul Airport into Paris. It took me less than one minute
> >> to find the URL attached to this which shows a bus service into Paris
> >> (to the Opera Metro station) for 8 Euros compared to 50 Euros for
> >> a cab.
> >>
> >> And you want to go from London to Milton Keynes? Try the second
> >> URL. I found five trains on the 10th of February out of Euston
> >> Station in the first 75 minutes of the afternoon. That is Rail
> >> Europe's web site. They want US$20 for a ticket. You could
> >> probably do a whole lot better just going up to the booking clerk in
> >> Euston station in London with a pocket full of Pounds Sterling.
> >>
> >
> > That would be Piccadilly line from Heathrow to Kings Cross, then
> > Circle/Metropolitan line to Euston. Or you could change from
> > Piccadilly to
> > Northern line at Leicester Sq.
> > From Gatwick, ThamesLink trains to Kings Cross and one stop on
> > Circle to
> > Euston. This avoids deep tubes.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >> I think either John Swindler or I would be happy to take you to
> >> London....
> >>
> >> The Pennsylvanian to Pittsbugh? You know, I used to use Number 25
> >> (The Metropolitan) every year to go to Pittsburgh. Took 6 hours
> >> from Lancaster. You can drive it in 4.5 hours. Since Congame took
> >> the super elevation out of the curves to make them more compatible
> >> with those long and high box cars and double stacks, it's now 6
> >> hours 12 minutes westbound and 6 hours 20 minutes eastbound and they
> >> don't require the time in Altoona anymore for a crew change and
> >> adding a helper ... in essence it's 40 minutes slower. I rode it
> >> once on business to Pittsburgh in the 1980s when Amtrak had both a
> >> day train and the Broadway.
> >>
> >> http://www.aparisguide.com/arrival.htm
> >>
> >> http://www.raileurope.com/us/rail/point_to_point/results.htm?
> >> cobrand=public&fn=fsRequest&c=USD&itemId=-1&r=0&F0=London&T0=Milton
> >> +Keynes&d0=10&m0=2&t0=afternoon&nA=1&nC=0&nY=0&nS=0&s=Search
> >>
> >>
> >> On Feb 5, 2007, at 5:00 PM, Bob Dietrich wrote:
> >>
> >>> Taking public transit when traveling requires two things. First is
> >>> knowledge of the transit system, or, as J. S. points out knowledge
> >>> that
> >>> there IS a transit system. Second you need to be able to schedule
> >>> around
> >>> that system. In my extensive foreign travel (once to England,
> >>> once to
> >>> Paris) I ended up in a cab or rental car. Going from Heathrow to
> >>> Milton
> >>> Keynes would have taken something like 4 hours and cost a ton of
> >>> Euros, er
> >>> Pounds. At least that was how it appeared on the web. And those
> >>> last few
> >>> miles between the train station and hotel would have been a
> >>> killer. Answer
> >>> - rent a car and drive like a maniac.
> >>>
> >>> In Paris we took a cab from de Gaulle to the hotel because we were
> >>> unsure
> >>> about the train, but once settled we rode the Metro everywhere.
> >>> What a
> >>> great system. No rental car, no driving like a maniac.
> >>>
> >>> I'm still trying to justify, or find a legitimate excuse to ride the
> >>> Pennsylvanian from here to Pittsburgh. If it is not the need for a
> >>> car out
> >>> there I'm hauling furniture, or modules or something. Oh well,
> >>> enough...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
> >>> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf Of
> >>> Fred
> >>> Schneider
> >>> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 12:04 PM
> >>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to 2/1/07
> >>>
> >>> John and all:
> >>>
> >>> I love my car. And I think Ken Josephson loves his car too ...
> >>> maybe as much as his wife and daughter. But there are still places
> >>> I will not take it. I may drive it through but I see no sense in
> >>> parking it in downtown San Francisco (hotels are a lot cheaper down
> >>> in San Mateo and Caltrain works just fine or BART works fine from
> >>> the
> >>> hotels in the East Bay). Most of my trips to Europe have been car
> >>> rental trips because I love the countryside BUT I SCHEDULE THE
> >>> BIGGEST CITIES FOR THE BEGINNING OR THE END OF THE TRIP BEFORE OR
> >>> AFTER I PICK UP OR TURN IN THE CAR. You do not need a rental
> >>> car in
> >>> London or Rome or Paris or Munich or Zurich or Basel or any other
> >>> large European city, so find a hotel near the airport. Best of all
> >>> find an airport with a hotel and train service into town and when
> >>> you're done there, then pick up the car.
> >>>
> >>> Zurich, Switzerland, for example, is a fabulous place. The Swiss
> >>> Federal Railways has a train station in the basement of the
> >>> airport. What better place can you find to arrive in a foreign
> >>> country. London Heathrow or London Gatwick are the same ...
> >>> Gatwick
> >>> is probably best of all because you don't need the fancy airport
> >>> trains (the regular Brighton - London locals also stop at the
> >>> airport). Frankfurt, Germany also has mainline train service from
> >>> their airport to all over Germany. Stockholm has high speed train
> >>> service from the airport to the center of the city ... rocket
> >>> sleds ... I think it was something like 125 mph. (I'm sure Derrick
> >>> will tell us because he goes there frequently.) These are a lot
> >>> better than the bus in Lisbon.
> >>>
> >>> On Feb 5, 2007, at 11:28 AM, John Swindler wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Fred
> >>>>
> >>>> Those on this list are not the average person. The average person
> >>>> does not
> >>>> know what transit options are available. And when it comes to
> >>>> foreign
> >>>> travel, they take with them their US experiences - which often
> >>>> means renting
> >>>> a car. But Fred knows that he can stay in a Newark hotel and that
> >>>> PATH
> >>>> exists to take him to NYC. And the rest on this list have similar
> >>>> "unusual"
> >>>> knowledge. That's one of the reasons I like Fred's travelogues -
> >>>> they touch
> >>>> on the transit options.
> >>>>
> >>>> A couple from church visited San Francisco and complained how much
> >>>> they paid
> >>>> for parking at Fisherman's Wharf. I replied that Carol and I
> >>>> didn't have to
> >>>> pay for parking when we visited this tourist site. We bought Muni
> >>>> day
> >>>> passes and rode the streetcar. At this, his eyes kind of glazed
> >>>> over - like
> >>>> I don't understand how you can visit and not have to use a car.
> >>>> Suspect
> >>>> most have had similar experiences
> >>>>
> >>>> John
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> >>>>> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to
> >>>>> 2/1/07
> >>>>> Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 19:13:30 -0500
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And once you got that truck, it's bloody hard to go back to the
> >>>>> bus
> >>>>> isn't it....
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I used to use the bus too ... every where I went. But when that
> >>>>> car
> >>>>> is right outside the door, it's hard to ignore. The exceptions
> >>>>> have
> >>>>> been instance like staying in the Robert Treat Hotel in Newark and
> >>>>> wanting to go into New York City ... in that case you know it's a
> >>>>> whole lot easier to walk six blocks to the Lackawanna or
> >>>>> Pennslylvania stations and take the train into the big city and
> >>>>> live
> >>>>> the damn car sit in the parking lot. I react the same way if I'm
> >>>>> going from Lancaster to New York or Lancaster to Center City
> >>>>> Philadelphia, or Dawntawn Pittsburgh. But aside from the largest
> >>>>> cities, it's pretty hard for me to leave my car at home anymore.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Feb 4, 2007, at 4:44 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> This past Christmas I broke down and bought myself a Christmas
> >>>>>> present.................a truck. I did not have a vehicle for
> >>>>>> nearly one year. So I used GCRTA to go everyplace..........the
> >>>>>> grocery store, the bank, the mall, work, etc. Bear in mind that I
> >>>>>> have always worked the "Extra Boad". Therefore, every day is a
> >>>>>> totally diffenent run assignment. I am happy to report that, at
> >>>>>> least in Cleveland, public transit still works well. I was always
> >>>>>> able to get to work at any hour of the day, any day of the week.
> >>>>>> Living downtown helped. Only on one occasion did I have to call a
> >>>>>> taxi. This was one morning when the 6-Euclid bus due at the
> >>>>>> Euclid/
> >>>>>> 32nd stop at 3:57am never showed. Otherwise you can get around
> >>>>>> Cleveland pretty well. However, now that I have the truck I have
> >>>>>> not resorted to the bus, car (lrv), or train. I have learned two
> >>>>>> things from this: 1) I know what our customers go through in
> >>>>>> order
> >>>>>> to use our services and I want to give them a decent transit
> >>>>>> trip,
> >>>>>> and, 2) We need
> >>>>>> to keep a very high level of service, safety, passenger
> >>>>>> amenities,
> >>>>>> etc if we want customers to stay with public transit. The new
> >>>>>> level
> >>>>>> of "freedom" they attain will keep them in the private vehicle if
> >>>>>> we (public transit providers) do not do all necessary to keep
> >>>>>> them.
> >>>>>> Time to get off the soapbox. I made gumbo and the aroma is
> >>>>>> calling
> >>>>>> me to the kitchen. Later gang !
> >>>>>> Herb Brannon
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----
> >>>>>> From: John Swindler <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
> >>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2007 12:50:41 PM
> >>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to
> >>>>>> 2/1/07
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> It's the convenience of letting someone else deal with rush hour
> >>>>>> traffic.
> >>>>>> Most small towns don't have rush hour traffic. But even
> >>>>>> Harrisburg has
> >>>>>> rush hour congestion and parking is limited. So I am happy to
> >>>>>> let
> >>>>>> the bus
> >>>>>> driver deal with it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> And transfers on small systems are horrible because of the
> >>>>>> headways. So if
> >>>>>> the factory job is not located in the center city, a car becomes
> >>>>>> much more
> >>>>>> attractive.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Another factor: how many young people today experienced the
> >>>>>> joy of
> >>>>>> being
> >>>>>> bused to school? And getting access to a car eliminated being
> >>>>>> tied
> >>>>>> to the
> >>>>>> school bus schedule. Suspect many never want to go back to
> >>>>>> reminders of
> >>>>>> their school bus experiences. It has become a tough sell.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> While the feds will assure you that there is no difference in
> >>>>>> modal
> >>>>>> split
> >>>>>> between bus and rail for new start funding purposes, and that
> >>>>>> bus is
> >>>>>> cheaper, don't believe them. They lie.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> John
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> >>>>>>> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to
> >>>>>>> 2/1/07
> >>>>>>> Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 08:10:36 -0500
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I don't think it is that Herb. I remember the Chief
> >>>>>>> Dispatcher at
> >>>>>>> Conestoga Transportation Co. telling me back in the 1970s
> >>>>>>> about a
> >>>>>>> special bus service they established to serve the women who
> >>>>>>> worked at
> >>>>>>> Shick's razor factory and several other plants in the same
> >>>>>>> industrial
> >>>>>>> plant. Their drivers noted that the passengers disappeared
> >>>>>>> after
> >>>>>>> they received the second pay checks and when they inquired of
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> other passengers where Suzy or Martha was the answer was
> >>>>>>> universal,
> >>>>>>> "They now have enough money to buy a car." Factory runs no
> >>>>>>> longer
> >>>>>>> pay. It's the services to dentists, doctors, lawyers and malls
> >>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>> the indigent and retired and under 16 that seem to have
> >>>>>>> become the
> >>>>>>> mainstay of public transit, at least in the small towns and
> >>>>>>> in the
> >>>>>>> suburbs of the larger cities. Some management types will use
> >>>>>>> transit because it is easier than finding a place to park
> >>>>>>> downtown.
> >>>>>>> But the factory worker doesn't, even if the factory still
> >>>>>>> exists.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Feb 3, 2007, at 7:39 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Too bad. I guess since there are no factories remaining
> >>>>>>>> everyone
> >>>>>>>> works bankers hours? Or so the PAT management believes. We
> >>>>>>>> still
> >>>>>>>> have 14 routes w/ 24-hour service.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Herb Brannon
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----
> >>>>>>>> From: Joshua Dunfield <joshuad at cs.cmu.edu>
> >>>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 3, 2007 5:29:30 PM
> >>>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to
> >>>>>>>> 2/1/07
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Herb Brannon wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> Interesting to note that 24-hour service is beginning again.
> >>>>>>>>> When I
> >>>>>>>>> worked at PATransit 24-hour service was offered on both the
> >>>>>>>>> 42/38
> >>>>>>>>> and 35
> >>>>>>>>> car lines as well as many bus lines.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Unfortunately, 24-hour service died in the first round of cuts,
> >>>>>>>> around 2003
> >>>>>>>> if memory serves. When it started in '01, one of my friends
> >>>>>>>> (who
> >>>>>>>> grew up in
> >>>>>>>> Stockholm) told me that "Pittsburgh is becoming a real city!"
> >>>>>>>> Well...
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Best,
> >>>>>>>> -j.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
> >>>>>> Check out all that glitters with the MSN Entertainment Guide
> >>>>>> to the
> >>>>>> Academy
> >>>>>> AwardsR http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?
> >>>>>> icid=ncoscartagline2
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _________________________________________________________________
> >>>> Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more
> >>>> on your
> >>>> Live.com page.
> >>>> http://www.live.com/?addTemplate=ValentinesDay&ocid=T001MSN30A0701
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
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>
>
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