[PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to 2/1/07

[Fred Schneider]

Aye, John.   And the first time I ever picked up a coal scoop was on  
the foot plate of a Black 5 in scheduled passenger service on the  
West Highland Mainline in Scotland (probably the 9:50 Glasgow Queen  
St.)    The driver told me not to fear ... "There are no inspectors  
up here."    Hard to get back to Pittsburgh too when you've stared  
out the upper deck of a Curnarder going down Argyle Street in  
Glasgow.   Or when you've pondered how those Scots managed to get a  
hard cooked egg into the middle of a baked ham.

John, we're being nasty to those people that don't understand the  
Brits.     I guess most American's just would not understand taking  
you dog to the pub while you sop up a warm ale and play a game of  
snooker.    Aye,  I guess the Brits would fail to comprehend the  
American passion for the Super Bowl.

Two nations divided by a common language?   Aye.

fws3

On Feb 6, 2007, at 12:58 PM, John Swindler wrote:

>
>
> Ahhh, yes, London and Northeastern Ry.   The Flying Scotman is an  
> A-3 class,
> so no need to recreate one of those.  And Mallard is preserved at  
> York, for
> those who think it proper to preserve a class A-4 steam locomotive  
> that went
> 126 miles per hour.
>
> I fear, Fred, that we have gotten terribly off topic, with no way  
> to return.
>
> John
>
>
>
>> From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to 2/1/07
>> Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 11:10:23 -0500
>>
>> We'll take him by the hand John.....  <Rip Snort'n laugh>   Sorry
>> about that Bob but there are two Angolphyles on this list.   (By the
>> way John, I understand the contract has been let for the Tornado's
>> boiler.  For those of you who fail to understand that last crack,
>> there was no A-1 Pacific steam locomotive preserved so the
>> preservationists in England decided they just needed one for mainline
>> steam excursions ... so out come the old blueprints.   The frame and
>> running gear are finished, so I'm told.  That project has been going
>> on for probably 20 years now.)
>>
>> On Feb 6, 2007, at 8:57 AM, John Swindler wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>>>> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to  
>>>> 2/1/07
>>>> Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 18:12:45 -0500
>>>>
>>>> I'm surprised that a computer geek like Bob Dietrich cannot use
>>>> Google to figure out in advance how to use RATP and some service  
>>>> from
>>>> Charles de Gaul Airport into Paris.   It took me less than one  
>>>> minute
>>>> to find the URL attached to this which shows a bus service into  
>>>> Paris
>>>> (to the Opera Metro station) for 8 Euros compared to 50 Euros for
>>>> a cab.
>>>>
>>>> And you want to go from London to Milton Keynes?   Try the second
>>>> URL.   I found five trains on the 10th of February out of Euston
>>>> Station in the first 75 minutes of the afternoon.   That is Rail
>>>> Europe's web site.   They want US$20 for a ticket.  You could
>>>> probably do a whole lot better just going up to the booking  
>>>> clerk in
>>>> Euston station in London with a pocket full of Pounds Sterling.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That would be Piccadilly line from Heathrow to Kings Cross, then
>>> Circle/Metropolitan line to Euston.  Or you could change from
>>> Piccadilly to
>>> Northern line at Leicester Sq.
>>> From Gatwick, ThamesLink trains to Kings Cross and one stop on
>>> Circle to
>>> Euston.  This avoids deep tubes.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I think either John Swindler or I would be happy to take you to
>>>> London....
>>>>
>>>> The Pennsylvanian to Pittsbugh?   You know, I used to use Number 25
>>>> (The Metropolitan) every year to go to Pittsburgh.   Took 6 hours
>>>> from Lancaster.   You can drive it in 4.5 hours.   Since Congame  
>>>> took
>>>> the super elevation out of the curves to make them more compatible
>>>> with those long and high box cars and double stacks,  it's now 6
>>>> hours 12 minutes westbound and 6 hours 20 minutes eastbound and  
>>>> they
>>>> don't require the time in Altoona anymore for a crew change and
>>>> adding a helper ... in essence it's 40 minutes slower.   I rode it
>>>> once on business to Pittsburgh in the 1980s when Amtrak had both a
>>>> day train and the Broadway.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.aparisguide.com/arrival.htm
>>>>
>>>> http://www.raileurope.com/us/rail/point_to_point/results.htm?
>>>> cobrand=public&fn=fsRequest&c=USD&itemId=-1&r=0&F0=London&T0=Milton
>>>> +Keynes&d0=10&m0=2&t0=afternoon&nA=1&nC=0&nY=0&nS=0&s=Search
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 5, 2007, at 5:00 PM, Bob Dietrich wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Taking public transit when traveling requires two things.   
>>>>> First is
>>>>> knowledge of the transit system, or, as J. S. points out knowledge
>>>>> that
>>>>> there IS a transit system.  Second you need to be able to schedule
>>>>> around
>>>>> that system.  In my extensive foreign travel (once to England,
>>>>> once to
>>>>> Paris) I ended up in a cab or rental car.  Going from Heathrow to
>>>>> Milton
>>>>> Keynes would have taken something like 4 hours and cost a ton of
>>>>> Euros, er
>>>>> Pounds.  At least that was how it appeared on the web.  And those
>>>>> last few
>>>>> miles between the train station and hotel would have been a
>>>>> killer.  Answer
>>>>> - rent a car and drive like a maniac.
>>>>>
>>>>> In Paris we took a cab from de Gaulle to the hotel because we were
>>>>> unsure
>>>>> about the train, but once settled we rode the Metro everywhere.
>>>>> What a
>>>>> great system.  No rental car, no driving like a maniac.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm still trying to justify, or find a legitimate excuse to  
>>>>> ride the
>>>>> Pennsylvanian from here to Pittsburgh.  If it is not the need  
>>>>> for a
>>>>> car out
>>>>> there I'm hauling furniture, or modules or something.  Oh well,
>>>>> enough...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
>>>>> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On  
>>>>> Behalf Of
>>>>> Fred
>>>>> Schneider
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 12:04 PM
>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to  
>>>>> 2/1/07
>>>>>
>>>>> John and all:
>>>>>
>>>>> I love my car.   And I think Ken Josephson loves his car too ...
>>>>> maybe as much as his wife and daughter.   But there are still  
>>>>> places
>>>>> I will not take it.   I may drive it through but I see no sense in
>>>>> parking it in downtown San Francisco (hotels are a lot cheaper  
>>>>> down
>>>>> in San Mateo and Caltrain works just fine or BART works fine from
>>>>> the
>>>>> hotels in the East Bay).   Most of my trips to Europe have been  
>>>>> car
>>>>> rental trips because I love the countryside BUT I SCHEDULE THE
>>>>> BIGGEST CITIES FOR THE BEGINNING OR THE END OF THE TRIP BEFORE OR
>>>>> AFTER I PICK UP OR TURN IN THE CAR.   You do not need a rental
>>>>> car in
>>>>> London or Rome or Paris or Munich or Zurich or Basel or any other
>>>>> large European city, so find a hotel near the airport.   Best  
>>>>> of all
>>>>> find an airport with a hotel and train service into town and when
>>>>> you're done there, then pick up the car.
>>>>>
>>>>> Zurich, Switzerland, for example, is a fabulous place.   The Swiss
>>>>> Federal Railways has a train station in the basement of the
>>>>> airport.   What better place can you find to arrive in a foreign
>>>>> country.   London Heathrow or London Gatwick are the same ...
>>>>> Gatwick
>>>>> is probably best of all because you don't need the fancy airport
>>>>> trains (the regular Brighton - London locals also stop at the
>>>>> airport).   Frankfurt, Germany also has mainline train service  
>>>>> from
>>>>> their airport to all over Germany.   Stockholm has high speed  
>>>>> train
>>>>> service from the airport to the center of the city ... rocket
>>>>> sleds ... I think it was something like 125 mph.   (I'm sure  
>>>>> Derrick
>>>>> will tell us because he goes there frequently.)   These are a lot
>>>>> better than the bus in Lisbon.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 5, 2007, at 11:28 AM, John Swindler wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Fred
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Those on this list are not the average person.  The average  
>>>>>> person
>>>>>> does not
>>>>>> know what transit options are available.  And when it comes to
>>>>>> foreign
>>>>>> travel, they take with them their US experiences - which often
>>>>>> means renting
>>>>>> a car.  But Fred knows that he can stay in a Newark hotel and  
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> PATH
>>>>>> exists to take him to NYC.  And the rest on this list have  
>>>>>> similar
>>>>>> "unusual"
>>>>>> knowledge.  That's one of the reasons I like Fred's travelogues -
>>>>>> they touch
>>>>>> on the transit options.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A couple from church visited San Francisco and complained how  
>>>>>> much
>>>>>> they paid
>>>>>> for parking at Fisherman's Wharf.  I replied that Carol and I
>>>>>> didn't have to
>>>>>> pay for parking when we visited this tourist site.  We bought  
>>>>>> Muni
>>>>>> day
>>>>>> passes and rode the streetcar.  At this, his eyes kind of glazed
>>>>>> over - like
>>>>>> I don't understand how you can visit and not have to use a car.
>>>>>> Suspect
>>>>>> most have had similar experiences
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>>>>>>> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to
>>>>>>> 2/1/07
>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 19:13:30 -0500
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And once you got that truck, it's bloody hard to go back to the
>>>>>>> bus
>>>>>>> isn't it....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I used to use the bus too ... every where I went.   But when  
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> car
>>>>>>> is right outside the door, it's hard to ignore.   The exceptions
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> been instance like staying in the Robert Treat Hotel in  
>>>>>>> Newark and
>>>>>>> wanting to go into New York City ... in that case you know  
>>>>>>> it's a
>>>>>>> whole lot easier to walk six blocks to the Lackawanna or
>>>>>>> Pennslylvania stations and take the train into the big city and
>>>>>>> live
>>>>>>> the damn car sit in the parking lot.   I react the same way  
>>>>>>> if I'm
>>>>>>> going from Lancaster to New York or Lancaster to Center City
>>>>>>> Philadelphia, or Dawntawn Pittsburgh.   But aside from the  
>>>>>>> largest
>>>>>>> cities, it's pretty hard for me to leave my car at home anymore.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2007, at 4:44 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This past Christmas I broke down and bought myself a Christmas
>>>>>>>> present.................a truck. I did not have a vehicle for
>>>>>>>> nearly one year. So I used GCRTA to go everyplace..........the
>>>>>>>> grocery store, the bank, the mall, work, etc. Bear in mind  
>>>>>>>> that I
>>>>>>>> have always worked the "Extra Boad". Therefore, every day is a
>>>>>>>> totally diffenent run assignment. I am happy to report that, at
>>>>>>>> least in Cleveland, public transit still works well. I was  
>>>>>>>> always
>>>>>>>> able to get to work at any hour of the day, any day of the  
>>>>>>>> week.
>>>>>>>> Living downtown helped. Only on one occasion did I have to  
>>>>>>>> call a
>>>>>>>> taxi. This was one morning when the 6-Euclid bus due at the
>>>>>>>> Euclid/
>>>>>>>> 32nd stop at 3:57am never showed. Otherwise you can get around
>>>>>>>> Cleveland pretty well. However, now that I have the truck I  
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> not resorted to the bus, car (lrv), or train. I have learned  
>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>> things from this: 1) I know what our customers go through in
>>>>>>>> order
>>>>>>>> to use our services and I want to give them a decent transit
>>>>>>>> trip,
>>>>>>>> and, 2) We need
>>>>>>>>  to keep a very high level of service, safety, passenger
>>>>>>>> amenities,
>>>>>>>> etc if we want customers to stay with public transit. The new
>>>>>>>> level
>>>>>>>> of "freedom" they attain will keep them in the private  
>>>>>>>> vehicle if
>>>>>>>> we (public transit providers) do not do all necessary to keep
>>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>> Time to get off the soapbox. I made gumbo and the aroma is
>>>>>>>> calling
>>>>>>>> me to the kitchen. Later gang !
>>>>>>>> Herb Brannon
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>>>>>> From: John Swindler <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2007 12:50:41 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to
>>>>>>>> 2/1/07
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's the convenience of letting someone else deal with rush  
>>>>>>>> hour
>>>>>>>> traffic.
>>>>>>>> Most small towns don't have rush hour traffic.    But even
>>>>>>>> Harrisburg has
>>>>>>>> rush hour congestion and parking is limited.  So I am happy to
>>>>>>>> let
>>>>>>>> the bus
>>>>>>>> driver deal with it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And transfers on small systems are horrible because of the
>>>>>>>> headways.  So if
>>>>>>>> the factory job is not located in the center city, a car  
>>>>>>>> becomes
>>>>>>>> much more
>>>>>>>> attractive.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Another factor:  how many young people today experienced the
>>>>>>>> joy of
>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>> bused to school?  And getting access to a car eliminated being
>>>>>>>> tied
>>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>> school bus schedule.  Suspect many never want to go back to
>>>>>>>> reminders of
>>>>>>>> their school bus experiences.  It has become a tough sell.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> While the feds will assure you that there is no difference in
>>>>>>>> modal
>>>>>>>> split
>>>>>>>> between bus and rail for new start funding purposes, and that
>>>>>>>> bus is
>>>>>>>> cheaper, don't believe them.  They lie.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>>>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to
>>>>>>>>> 2/1/07
>>>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 08:10:36 -0500
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't think it is that Herb.   I remember the Chief
>>>>>>>>> Dispatcher at
>>>>>>>>> Conestoga Transportation Co. telling me back in the 1970s
>>>>>>>>> about a
>>>>>>>>> special bus service they established to serve the women who
>>>>>>>>> worked at
>>>>>>>>> Shick's razor factory and several other plants in the same
>>>>>>>>> industrial
>>>>>>>>> plant.   Their drivers noted that the passengers disappeared
>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>> they received the second pay checks and when they inquired of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> other passengers where Suzy or Martha was the answer was
>>>>>>>>> universal,
>>>>>>>>> "They now have enough money to buy a car."   Factory runs no
>>>>>>>>> longer
>>>>>>>>> pay.   It's the services to dentists, doctors, lawyers and  
>>>>>>>>> malls
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> the indigent and retired and under 16 that seem to have
>>>>>>>>> become the
>>>>>>>>> mainstay of public transit, at least in the small towns and
>>>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>>>> suburbs of the larger cities.   Some management types will use
>>>>>>>>> transit because it is easier than finding a place to park
>>>>>>>>> downtown.
>>>>>>>>> But the factory worker doesn't, even if the factory still
>>>>>>>>> exists.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 3, 2007, at 7:39 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Too bad. I guess since there are no factories remaining
>>>>>>>>>> everyone
>>>>>>>>>> works bankers hours? Or so the PAT management believes. We
>>>>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>>>>> have 14 routes w/ 24-hour service.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Herb Brannon
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>>>>>>>> From: Joshua Dunfield <joshuad at cs.cmu.edu>
>>>>>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 3, 2007 5:29:30 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to
>>>>>>>>>> 2/1/07
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Herb Brannon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting to note that 24-hour service is beginning again.
>>>>>>>>>>> When I
>>>>>>>>>>> worked at PATransit 24-hour service was offered on both the
>>>>>>>>>>> 42/38
>>>>>>>>>>> and 35
>>>>>>>>>>> car lines as well as many bus lines.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, 24-hour service died in the first round of  
>>>>>>>>>> cuts,
>>>>>>>>>> around 2003
>>>>>>>>>> if memory serves.  When it started in '01, one of my friends
>>>>>>>>>> (who
>>>>>>>>>> grew up in
>>>>>>>>>> Stockholm) told me that "Pittsburgh is becoming a real city!"
>>>>>>>>>> Well...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>> -j.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________ 
>>>>>>>> __
>>>>>>>> Check out all that glitters with the MSN Entertainment Guide
>>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>> Academy
>>>>>>>> AwardsR   http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?
>>>>>>>> icid=ncoscartagline2
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>> Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and  
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
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