[PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to 2/1/07

John Swindler j_swindler at hotmail.com
Tue Feb 6 22:46:28 EST 2007 



>From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to 2/1/07
>Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 13:12:08 -0500
>
>Aye, John.   And the first time I ever picked up a coal scoop was on
>the foot plate of a Black 5 in scheduled passenger service on the
>West Highland Mainline in Scotland (probably the 9:50 Glasgow Queen
>St.)    The driver told me not to fear ... "There are no inspectors
>up here."    Hard to get back to Pittsburgh too when you've stared
>out the upper deck of a Curnarder going down Argyle Street in
>Glasgow.   Or when you've pondered how those Scots managed to get a
>hard cooked egg into the middle of a baked ham.
>
>John, we're being nasty to those people that don't understand the
>Brits.     I guess most American's just would not understand taking
>you dog to the pub while you sop up a warm ale and play a game of
>snooker.


We have a post card on our refrigerator of an elderly gent in a pub with his 
dog.  But then it's a Jack Russell dog.  (Ed and Fred will understand)


Aye,  I guess the Brits would fail to comprehend the
>American passion for the Super Bowl.
>
>Two nations divided by a common language?   Aye.
>
>fws3
>
>On Feb 6, 2007, at 12:58 PM, John Swindler wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Ahhh, yes, London and Northeastern Ry.   The Flying Scotman is an
> > A-3 class,
> > so no need to recreate one of those.  And Mallard is preserved at
> > York, for
> > those who think it proper to preserve a class A-4 steam locomotive
> > that went
> > 126 miles per hour.
> >
> > I fear, Fred, that we have gotten terribly off topic, with no way
> > to return.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >> From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> >> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to 2/1/07
> >> Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 11:10:23 -0500
> >>
> >> We'll take him by the hand John.....  <Rip Snort'n laugh>   Sorry
> >> about that Bob but there are two Angolphyles on this list.   (By the
> >> way John, I understand the contract has been let for the Tornado's
> >> boiler.  For those of you who fail to understand that last crack,
> >> there was no A-1 Pacific steam locomotive preserved so the
> >> preservationists in England decided they just needed one for mainline
> >> steam excursions ... so out come the old blueprints.   The frame and
> >> running gear are finished, so I'm told.  That project has been going
> >> on for probably 20 years now.)
> >>
> >> On Feb 6, 2007, at 8:57 AM, John Swindler wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> >>>> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to
> >>>> 2/1/07
> >>>> Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 18:12:45 -0500
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm surprised that a computer geek like Bob Dietrich cannot use
> >>>> Google to figure out in advance how to use RATP and some service
> >>>> from
> >>>> Charles de Gaul Airport into Paris.   It took me less than one
> >>>> minute
> >>>> to find the URL attached to this which shows a bus service into
> >>>> Paris
> >>>> (to the Opera Metro station) for 8 Euros compared to 50 Euros for
> >>>> a cab.
> >>>>
> >>>> And you want to go from London to Milton Keynes?   Try the second
> >>>> URL.   I found five trains on the 10th of February out of Euston
> >>>> Station in the first 75 minutes of the afternoon.   That is Rail
> >>>> Europe's web site.   They want US$20 for a ticket.  You could
> >>>> probably do a whole lot better just going up to the booking
> >>>> clerk in
> >>>> Euston station in London with a pocket full of Pounds Sterling.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> That would be Piccadilly line from Heathrow to Kings Cross, then
> >>> Circle/Metropolitan line to Euston.  Or you could change from
> >>> Piccadilly to
> >>> Northern line at Leicester Sq.
> >>> From Gatwick, ThamesLink trains to Kings Cross and one stop on
> >>> Circle to
> >>> Euston.  This avoids deep tubes.
> >>>
> >>> John
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> I think either John Swindler or I would be happy to take you to
> >>>> London....
> >>>>
> >>>> The Pennsylvanian to Pittsbugh?   You know, I used to use Number 25
> >>>> (The Metropolitan) every year to go to Pittsburgh.   Took 6 hours
> >>>> from Lancaster.   You can drive it in 4.5 hours.   Since Congame
> >>>> took
> >>>> the super elevation out of the curves to make them more compatible
> >>>> with those long and high box cars and double stacks,  it's now 6
> >>>> hours 12 minutes westbound and 6 hours 20 minutes eastbound and
> >>>> they
> >>>> don't require the time in Altoona anymore for a crew change and
> >>>> adding a helper ... in essence it's 40 minutes slower.   I rode it
> >>>> once on business to Pittsburgh in the 1980s when Amtrak had both a
> >>>> day train and the Broadway.
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.aparisguide.com/arrival.htm
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.raileurope.com/us/rail/point_to_point/results.htm?
> >>>> cobrand=public&fn=fsRequest&c=USD&itemId=-1&r=0&F0=London&T0=Milton
> >>>> +Keynes&d0=10&m0=2&t0=afternoon&nA=1&nC=0&nY=0&nS=0&s=Search
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Feb 5, 2007, at 5:00 PM, Bob Dietrich wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Taking public transit when traveling requires two things.
> >>>>> First is
> >>>>> knowledge of the transit system, or, as J. S. points out knowledge
> >>>>> that
> >>>>> there IS a transit system.  Second you need to be able to schedule
> >>>>> around
> >>>>> that system.  In my extensive foreign travel (once to England,
> >>>>> once to
> >>>>> Paris) I ended up in a cab or rental car.  Going from Heathrow to
> >>>>> Milton
> >>>>> Keynes would have taken something like 4 hours and cost a ton of
> >>>>> Euros, er
> >>>>> Pounds.  At least that was how it appeared on the web.  And those
> >>>>> last few
> >>>>> miles between the train station and hotel would have been a
> >>>>> killer.  Answer
> >>>>> - rent a car and drive like a maniac.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In Paris we took a cab from de Gaulle to the hotel because we were
> >>>>> unsure
> >>>>> about the train, but once settled we rode the Metro everywhere.
> >>>>> What a
> >>>>> great system.  No rental car, no driving like a maniac.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm still trying to justify, or find a legitimate excuse to
> >>>>> ride the
> >>>>> Pennsylvanian from here to Pittsburgh.  If it is not the need
> >>>>> for a
> >>>>> car out
> >>>>> there I'm hauling furniture, or modules or something.  Oh well,
> >>>>> enough...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
> >>>>> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On
> >>>>> Behalf Of
> >>>>> Fred
> >>>>> Schneider
> >>>>> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 12:04 PM
> >>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to
> >>>>> 2/1/07
> >>>>>
> >>>>> John and all:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I love my car.   And I think Ken Josephson loves his car too ...
> >>>>> maybe as much as his wife and daughter.   But there are still
> >>>>> places
> >>>>> I will not take it.   I may drive it through but I see no sense in
> >>>>> parking it in downtown San Francisco (hotels are a lot cheaper
> >>>>> down
> >>>>> in San Mateo and Caltrain works just fine or BART works fine from
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> hotels in the East Bay).   Most of my trips to Europe have been
> >>>>> car
> >>>>> rental trips because I love the countryside BUT I SCHEDULE THE
> >>>>> BIGGEST CITIES FOR THE BEGINNING OR THE END OF THE TRIP BEFORE OR
> >>>>> AFTER I PICK UP OR TURN IN THE CAR.   You do not need a rental
> >>>>> car in
> >>>>> London or Rome or Paris or Munich or Zurich or Basel or any other
> >>>>> large European city, so find a hotel near the airport.   Best
> >>>>> of all
> >>>>> find an airport with a hotel and train service into town and when
> >>>>> you're done there, then pick up the car.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Zurich, Switzerland, for example, is a fabulous place.   The Swiss
> >>>>> Federal Railways has a train station in the basement of the
> >>>>> airport.   What better place can you find to arrive in a foreign
> >>>>> country.   London Heathrow or London Gatwick are the same ...
> >>>>> Gatwick
> >>>>> is probably best of all because you don't need the fancy airport
> >>>>> trains (the regular Brighton - London locals also stop at the
> >>>>> airport).   Frankfurt, Germany also has mainline train service
> >>>>> from
> >>>>> their airport to all over Germany.   Stockholm has high speed
> >>>>> train
> >>>>> service from the airport to the center of the city ... rocket
> >>>>> sleds ... I think it was something like 125 mph.   (I'm sure
> >>>>> Derrick
> >>>>> will tell us because he goes there frequently.)   These are a lot
> >>>>> better than the bus in Lisbon.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Feb 5, 2007, at 11:28 AM, John Swindler wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Fred
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Those on this list are not the average person.  The average
> >>>>>> person
> >>>>>> does not
> >>>>>> know what transit options are available.  And when it comes to
> >>>>>> foreign
> >>>>>> travel, they take with them their US experiences - which often
> >>>>>> means renting
> >>>>>> a car.  But Fred knows that he can stay in a Newark hotel and
> >>>>>> that
> >>>>>> PATH
> >>>>>> exists to take him to NYC.  And the rest on this list have
> >>>>>> similar
> >>>>>> "unusual"
> >>>>>> knowledge.  That's one of the reasons I like Fred's travelogues -
> >>>>>> they touch
> >>>>>> on the transit options.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> A couple from church visited San Francisco and complained how
> >>>>>> much
> >>>>>> they paid
> >>>>>> for parking at Fisherman's Wharf.  I replied that Carol and I
> >>>>>> didn't have to
> >>>>>> pay for parking when we visited this tourist site.  We bought
> >>>>>> Muni
> >>>>>> day
> >>>>>> passes and rode the streetcar.  At this, his eyes kind of glazed
> >>>>>> over - like
> >>>>>> I don't understand how you can visit and not have to use a car.
> >>>>>> Suspect
> >>>>>> most have had similar experiences
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> John
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> >>>>>>> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to
> >>>>>>> 2/1/07
> >>>>>>> Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 19:13:30 -0500
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> And once you got that truck, it's bloody hard to go back to the
> >>>>>>> bus
> >>>>>>> isn't it....
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I used to use the bus too ... every where I went.   But when
> >>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>> car
> >>>>>>> is right outside the door, it's hard to ignore.   The exceptions
> >>>>>>> have
> >>>>>>> been instance like staying in the Robert Treat Hotel in
> >>>>>>> Newark and
> >>>>>>> wanting to go into New York City ... in that case you know
> >>>>>>> it's a
> >>>>>>> whole lot easier to walk six blocks to the Lackawanna or
> >>>>>>> Pennslylvania stations and take the train into the big city and
> >>>>>>> live
> >>>>>>> the damn car sit in the parking lot.   I react the same way
> >>>>>>> if I'm
> >>>>>>> going from Lancaster to New York or Lancaster to Center City
> >>>>>>> Philadelphia, or Dawntawn Pittsburgh.   But aside from the
> >>>>>>> largest
> >>>>>>> cities, it's pretty hard for me to leave my car at home anymore.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2007, at 4:44 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> This past Christmas I broke down and bought myself a Christmas
> >>>>>>>> present.................a truck. I did not have a vehicle for
> >>>>>>>> nearly one year. So I used GCRTA to go everyplace..........the
> >>>>>>>> grocery store, the bank, the mall, work, etc. Bear in mind
> >>>>>>>> that I
> >>>>>>>> have always worked the "Extra Boad". Therefore, every day is a
> >>>>>>>> totally diffenent run assignment. I am happy to report that, at
> >>>>>>>> least in Cleveland, public transit still works well. I was
> >>>>>>>> always
> >>>>>>>> able to get to work at any hour of the day, any day of the
> >>>>>>>> week.
> >>>>>>>> Living downtown helped. Only on one occasion did I have to
> >>>>>>>> call a
> >>>>>>>> taxi. This was one morning when the 6-Euclid bus due at the
> >>>>>>>> Euclid/
> >>>>>>>> 32nd stop at 3:57am never showed. Otherwise you can get around
> >>>>>>>> Cleveland pretty well. However, now that I have the truck I
> >>>>>>>> have
> >>>>>>>> not resorted to the bus, car (lrv), or train. I have learned
> >>>>>>>> two
> >>>>>>>> things from this: 1) I know what our customers go through in
> >>>>>>>> order
> >>>>>>>> to use our services and I want to give them a decent transit
> >>>>>>>> trip,
> >>>>>>>> and, 2) We need
> >>>>>>>>  to keep a very high level of service, safety, passenger
> >>>>>>>> amenities,
> >>>>>>>> etc if we want customers to stay with public transit. The new
> >>>>>>>> level
> >>>>>>>> of "freedom" they attain will keep them in the private
> >>>>>>>> vehicle if
> >>>>>>>> we (public transit providers) do not do all necessary to keep
> >>>>>>>> them.
> >>>>>>>> Time to get off the soapbox. I made gumbo and the aroma is
> >>>>>>>> calling
> >>>>>>>> me to the kitchen. Later gang !
> >>>>>>>> Herb Brannon
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----
> >>>>>>>> From: John Swindler <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
> >>>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2007 12:50:41 PM
> >>>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to
> >>>>>>>> 2/1/07
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> It's the convenience of letting someone else deal with rush
> >>>>>>>> hour
> >>>>>>>> traffic.
> >>>>>>>> Most small towns don't have rush hour traffic.    But even
> >>>>>>>> Harrisburg has
> >>>>>>>> rush hour congestion and parking is limited.  So I am happy to
> >>>>>>>> let
> >>>>>>>> the bus
> >>>>>>>> driver deal with it.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> And transfers on small systems are horrible because of the
> >>>>>>>> headways.  So if
> >>>>>>>> the factory job is not located in the center city, a car
> >>>>>>>> becomes
> >>>>>>>> much more
> >>>>>>>> attractive.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Another factor:  how many young people today experienced the
> >>>>>>>> joy of
> >>>>>>>> being
> >>>>>>>> bused to school?  And getting access to a car eliminated being
> >>>>>>>> tied
> >>>>>>>> to the
> >>>>>>>> school bus schedule.  Suspect many never want to go back to
> >>>>>>>> reminders of
> >>>>>>>> their school bus experiences.  It has become a tough sell.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> While the feds will assure you that there is no difference in
> >>>>>>>> modal
> >>>>>>>> split
> >>>>>>>> between bus and rail for new start funding purposes, and that
> >>>>>>>> bus is
> >>>>>>>> cheaper, don't believe them.  They lie.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> John
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> >>>>>>>>> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >>>>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >>>>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to
> >>>>>>>>> 2/1/07
> >>>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 08:10:36 -0500
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I don't think it is that Herb.   I remember the Chief
> >>>>>>>>> Dispatcher at
> >>>>>>>>> Conestoga Transportation Co. telling me back in the 1970s
> >>>>>>>>> about a
> >>>>>>>>> special bus service they established to serve the women who
> >>>>>>>>> worked at
> >>>>>>>>> Shick's razor factory and several other plants in the same
> >>>>>>>>> industrial
> >>>>>>>>> plant.   Their drivers noted that the passengers disappeared
> >>>>>>>>> after
> >>>>>>>>> they received the second pay checks and when they inquired of
> >>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> other passengers where Suzy or Martha was the answer was
> >>>>>>>>> universal,
> >>>>>>>>> "They now have enough money to buy a car."   Factory runs no
> >>>>>>>>> longer
> >>>>>>>>> pay.   It's the services to dentists, doctors, lawyers and
> >>>>>>>>> malls
> >>>>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>>>> the indigent and retired and under 16 that seem to have
> >>>>>>>>> become the
> >>>>>>>>> mainstay of public transit, at least in the small towns and
> >>>>>>>>> in the
> >>>>>>>>> suburbs of the larger cities.   Some management types will use
> >>>>>>>>> transit because it is easier than finding a place to park
> >>>>>>>>> downtown.
> >>>>>>>>> But the factory worker doesn't, even if the factory still
> >>>>>>>>> exists.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Feb 3, 2007, at 7:39 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Too bad. I guess since there are no factories remaining
> >>>>>>>>>> everyone
> >>>>>>>>>> works bankers hours? Or so the PAT management believes. We
> >>>>>>>>>> still
> >>>>>>>>>> have 14 routes w/ 24-hour service.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Herb Brannon
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----
> >>>>>>>>>> From: Joshua Dunfield <joshuad at cs.cmu.edu>
> >>>>>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 3, 2007 5:29:30 PM
> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to
> >>>>>>>>>> 2/1/07
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Herb Brannon wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> Interesting to note that 24-hour service is beginning again.
> >>>>>>>>>>> When I
> >>>>>>>>>>> worked at PATransit 24-hour service was offered on both the
> >>>>>>>>>>> 42/38
> >>>>>>>>>>> and 35
> >>>>>>>>>>> car lines as well as many bus lines.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, 24-hour service died in the first round of
> >>>>>>>>>> cuts,
> >>>>>>>>>> around 2003
> >>>>>>>>>> if memory serves.  When it started in '01, one of my friends
> >>>>>>>>>> (who
> >>>>>>>>>> grew up in
> >>>>>>>>>> Stockholm) told me that "Pittsburgh is becoming a real city!"
> >>>>>>>>>> Well...
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Best,
> >>>>>>>>>> -j.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________
> >>>>>>>> __
> >>>>>>>> Check out all that glitters with the MSN Entertainment Guide
> >>>>>>>> to the
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> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
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> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _________________________________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
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