[PRCo] Re: Transit evolution

Fred Schneider fwschneider at comcast.net
Sun Mar 11 17:38:33 EDT 2007 

Are you thinking in terms of construction?   The program resulted in  
the development of construction machinery the likes of which we never  
had before.   Until then we tunneled through mountains.  After 1960  
we moved the mountains out of the way.

I'm also thinking of how we made remote concrete factories.   There  
was one on the south side of the mountain below Wilkes-Barre designed  
to pour concrete for Interstate 81.   There was no abundant water  
source other than what collected inside the abandoned Wilkes-Barre  
and Hazleton Railroad (the third rail interurban) tunnel under the  
mountain.   They build a huge dam across the face of the tunnel to  
create the water supply for the concrete!   The trolley tunneled  
through the mountain but a short distance to the west the highway  
removed the mountain!

On Mar 11, 2007, at 2:04 PM, John Swindler wrote:

>
>
> It made a lot of oil companies and highway contractors very wealthy.
>
>
>
>> From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Transit evolution
>> Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 13:16:44 -0400
>>
>> Worked didn't it?
>>
>> Do interstate highways save fuel compared to driving at 35 miles per
>> hour and cooling your heels at stops signs and traffic lights?   Or
>> did they causes us to drive more miles and thus burn more fuel than
>> we would have done if we did not have limited access highways?
>>
>> Chicken and egg argument.    Unanswerable.
>>
>> On Mar 11, 2007, at 1:09 PM, John Swindler wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But still, calling the interstate highways a national defense
>>> system was a
>>> public relations ploy.  It was no more national defense then tv
>>> killed West
>>> Penn and National City Lines got rid of the trolleys.
>>>
>>> It was the way to sell a major highway construction program to the
>>> politicians and public in the 1950s.
>>>
>>> Going back to 1919 - why would you want to send a military convoy
>>> by road
>>> from Washington to Pittsburgh and onto west coast other then for  
>>> test
>>> purposes or for public relations?  More likely both.  It was just
>>> by the
>>> dumbest of luck that the convoy commander ended up being a future
>>> president.
>>>
>>> Even into Desert Storm, a lot of military cargo went by rail.
>>> Small units
>>> usually moved by highway convoy, but brigade and above usually used
>>> rail.
>>> And that's both US and Europe.  Actually, in Europe in 1990 - how
>>> would you
>>> move a 7th Corps from Germany to Rotterdam and Antwerp for movement
>>> to Saudi
>>> Arabia?  Certainly not by highway.  Much by rail, but a lot also by
>>> barge.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>>>> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Transit evolution
>>>> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 18:40:04 -0500
>>>>
>>>> And in 1919 it took the convoy three days to get from Washington to
>>>> Pittsburgh and those were good roads.
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 10, 2007, at 3:26 PM, John Swindler wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ike also saw the autobahn's in Germany.  Yes, they may have been a
>>>>> German
>>>>> showcase, but they were a great help to the Allies in closing  
>>>>> weeks
>>>>> of the
>>>>> war.  I'll have to check to see if 2nd Armor used an autobahn - it
>>>>> covered
>>>>> half the distance to Berlin in one day.   Around 100 miles  
>>>>> comes to
>>>>> mind,
>>>>> but would really want to research that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yet when it comes down to moving tonnage, nothing compares with
>>>>> rail.  And
>>>>> Ike knew that.  But rail is more susceptible to interdiction.  The
>>>>> Red Ball
>>>>> Express truck convoys were just an expedient until the French rail
>>>>> system
>>>>> could be restored.  And that restoration was never completed -
>>>>> Antwerp was
>>>>> captured.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Interstate system connection with national defense may be more
>>>>> public
>>>>> relations then anything else.
>>>>>
>>>>> John Swindler, Maj, retired
>>>>> Transportation Corps.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: "Edward H. Lybarger" <trams2 at comcast.net>
>>>>>> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>>>>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Transit evolution
>>>>>> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 08:17:17 -0500
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The 1919 trip was assuredly the motivation for the Interstate
>>>>>> Highway
>>>>>> System.  It's well-documented in the recent (2-4 years ago?) book
>>>>>> on the
>>>>>> subject.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
>>>>>> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org]On  
>>>>>> Behalf Of
>>>>>> Fred
>>>>>> Schneider
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 8:43 PM
>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Transit evolution
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ONLY 25 MINUTES BETTER THAN THE 1930 TRAIN SCHEDULE!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess I need to research the legislation that created the
>>>>>> Interstate Highway System that Dwight Eisenhower signed into  
>>>>>> law in
>>>>>> 1954.   Without any additional background information, I cannot
>>>>>> help
>>>>>> but be lead or mislead to conclude that Ike's military convoy by
>>>>>> truck across the United States that took two months in 1919  
>>>>>> and was
>>>>>> done to demonstrate a need for good highways stuck with him lock
>>>>>> afterward and may have lead him to support the Federal Interstate
>>>>>> Highway Program.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can remember numerous family vacations in the 1940s and 1950s
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> we averaged 30 miles per hour.   I can remember one incredibly  
>>>>>> long
>>>>>> day when we left a cousin's home in Palos Park, Illinois, just  
>>>>>> off
>>>>>> route 30 southwest of Chicago, early one morning and dragged
>>>>>> into the
>>>>>> grandparent's home in Marietta, Ohio at 2 AM the next morning,
>>>>>> having
>>>>>> inched along route 30 through Fort Wayne and Lima and then  
>>>>>> down to
>>>>>> Columbus and Zanesville and then down along the Muskingum River
>>>>>> after
>>>>>> midnight.    And then I think after Interstate Highways, driving
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> Palo Alto CA to Salt Lake City in the same time and from Grand
>>>>>> Island
>>>>>> NE to Lancaster PA from 9 AM one day to lunch time the next day.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 9, 2007, at 8:17 PM, Bill Robb wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My next memories are that Lake Shore Coach Company, the
>>>>>>> successor to
>>>>>>> Lake Shore Electric Railway had traded franchises with Central
>>>>>>> Greyhound.  CG ended up with the Cleveland - Toledo route and  
>>>>>>> LSC
>>>>>>> got
>>>>>>> the Cleveland to Marietta service.  In the 1950s I remember Lake
>>>>>>> Shore Coach Company's PG 3701 buses in Marietta painted brown  
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> orange ... the orange probably a leftover from the interurban  
>>>>>>> car
>>>>>>> livery.    I don't have any schedules but I suspect they might
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> averaged 25 to 30 miles per hour, which would have required 5
>>>>>>> hours
>>>>>>> 30 minutes to 6 hours 45 minutes for the Marietta - Cleveland  
>>>>>>> run.
>>>>>>> Driving it in an automobile in those days would have taken at
>>>>>>> least
>>>>>>> five hours.
>>>>>>> So why doesn't public transportation work today?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Because I can get in my Volkswagen and drive the 168 miles on
>>>>>>> Interstate 77 in 2 hours 30 minutes in spite of Ohio's overly
>>>>>>> aggressive State Troopers.
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> -------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have a timetable for Feb 1946 when the bus line was still Penn
>>>>>>> Ohio which was later taken over by Greyhound.  Cleveland- 
>>>>>>> Marietta
>>>>>>> was 7 hours then. But you stopped at every place along the way.
>>>>>>> And the bus ran everyday.  People still worked 6 days a week.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ________________________________________________________________ 
>>>>>>> __
>>>>>>> __
>>>>>>> __
>>>>>>> ______________
>>>>>>> Get your own web address.
>>>>>>> Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
>>>>>>> http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>> The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
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>>
>
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